Pact (Web Serial by Wildbow) Discussion Thread

Pact (Web Serial by Wildbow) Discussion Thread

Unread postby PencilMonkey » October 9th, 2014, 5:11 am

As suggested over in the Worm discussion thread, let's try having a discussion thread for Wildbow's new web fiction, Pact.

Just to get things started, and since this site is officially dedicated to the Authorlord's many fine fanfics - including Harry Potter - how do you think the sorcery of the Potterverse would mesh with Pactworld's magic?

For that matter, Wildbow made some sly allusions to Rowling's stories in one of the interlude chapters, where it was mentioned that British Practitioners favored wands as their implements.

The idea of a Harry Potter/Pact crossover fanfic seems rather appealing; the young wizards and witches at Hogwarts started out relatively innocent and naïve of the grim inner workings of the world, much like the youngest Practitioners in Pact have been shown to act. Gradually, over the course of the books, Harry & friends were introduced to the darker side of life, which would probably be a much more accelerated process if the HP stories were set in the world of Pact.

Also, in a HP/Pact crossover, you could theoretically get an Acromantula or a Norwegian Ridgeback as your Familiar. It also raises some interesting questions about House Elves - in an HP/Pact crossover, would they be Familiars or a form of perambulatory extension of the Practitioner's Demesne?

EDIT: Oh, and by the way, even though people commenting here will no doubt do their best to use spoiler tags to avoid ruining things for new readers, be warned that some things might slip. If you want to completely avoid spoilers, it's probably best to read the story all the way to its most recent chapter first.

PS: This might be tooting my own horn a little, but if you're interested in Pact fan drawings, check out the Blakeguard group on DeviantArt.
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Re: Pact (Web Serial by Wildbow) Discussion Thread

Unread postby Ristridin » October 9th, 2014, 6:44 pm

To start with, we have this quote:
The largest group that might be said to make regular use of the scepter would be the Anglo-influenced Japanese families of practitioners, who have taken on the Western traditions of choosing implement, familiar, and demesnes for their personal power.
They have taken on these traditions, so they are not set in stone. This can explain some of the differences between HP-verse and Pact-verse.

Implements: Pact restrictions would explain why getting the right wand is so important. It also explains why most people are not carrying multiple wands; you can only have one implement at a time (maybe only one ever). Replacing a lost want would be a lot more problematic (impossible?), I think. Stealing an Implement rightfully is ok with the spirits; this can work into wand ownership rules.

Familiars would also have to be handled with much more care. Hedwig would probably not count as a familiar.

Demesne... I can see the Houses being used as some form of shared demesne. As a means to grow in power, which would otherwise be very difficult. HP wizards and witches can pretty much keep casting spells as they want, so they need some source of power. In their later life, wizards may still draw some power from it, although the older magical families probably prefer to have their own source of power as well. Muggleborn actually are weaker magically, because they cannot draw upon the strength of their families. Got to wonder about accidental magic though; that should be pretty much impossible without Awakening.

Specific forms of magic: I can imagine why curses like Avada Kedavra are Forbidden (besides the obvious reasons); they are awful for your karma. Direct killing makes it very easy for the spirits to judge someone. Better to go with curses that are not as inherently bad. This also explains Azkaban; nobody gets the bad karma for a direct kill. Feeding the dementors might be part of some agreement.

Oh, and if you think HPverse dementors are bad, you'll never want to see the Pactverse version. Severing connections to the afterlife has been noted as possible early on (Barbatorem is believed to be able to do this), so they can exist. And are probably some form of demon. Eating positive emotions, slowly driving someone into a spiral of depression. I'm guessing they fit in the choir of Ruin, or maybe Madness. On the other hand, people are capable of controlling dementors, which would mean there are plenty of diabolists running free. Not a happy thought, so maybe it's better not to have dementors be demons.

As for the rest... Rowling has few restrictions on magic. We know many of the forms of magic also work in Pact. Divination, Ancient Runes and Astronomy all fit in the Pact framework (Divination may be more of a short term thing though). Memory alteration is possible, but there would be less of a need for an Obliviator squad thanks to the Seal of Solomon restricting Others from interacting with innocents. Healing is possible (but usually very costly), and I don't think we've seen any direct damage spells (probably to avoid bad karma).

The big problem is casting spells all day long; this should not be quite as easy. I guess that would be the one thing that really has to change.
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Re: Pact (Web Serial by Wildbow) Discussion Thread

Unread postby PencilMonkey » October 10th, 2014, 4:01 am

Specific forms of magic: I can imagine why curses like Avada Kedavra are Forbidden (besides the obvious reasons); they are awful for your karma. Direct killing makes it very easy for the spirits to judge someone. Better to go with curses that are not as inherently bad. This also explains Azkaban; nobody gets the bad karma for a direct kill. Feeding the dementors might be part of some agreement.
Dolores Umbridge's Blood Quill falls into the same category - it's an ingenious way to get delinquent students to apply sadistic torture to themselves, without the Grand Inquisitor having to get her dainty hands dirty.
On the other hand, people are capable of controlling dementors, which would mean there are plenty of diabolists running free. Not a happy thought, so maybe it's better not to have dementors be demons.
However, the Ministry seems to 'control' the Dementors through judicious applications of Expecto Patronum, essentially herding them like wild beasts. The Patronus charm requires channelling a strong, positive memory, so it's probably more an Angelic spell than a Diabolist one - although there might exist a darker version, to allow Voldemort & Co. to control Dementors without having to draw on happy memories they might not have.
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Re: Pact (Web Serial by Wildbow) Discussion Thread

Unread postby Ristridin » October 10th, 2014, 11:10 pm

However, the Ministry seems to 'control' the Dementors through judicious applications of Expecto Patronum, essentially herding them like wild beasts. The Patronus charm requires channelling a strong, positive memory, so it's probably more an Angelic spell than a Diabolist one - although there might exist a darker version, to allow Voldemort & Co. to control Dementors without having to draw on happy memories they might not have.
On one hand, I agree with that; Expecto Patronum definitely does not sound like a Diabolist spell. On the other hand, I got the vague impression that anyone who deals with demons in any way is considered a diabolist. Studying demons is already considered a bad thing. Feeding demons by deliberately providing them with steady access to humans (even if said humans are supposedly the skum of the earth, and even if you don't get bad karma because the damage is indirect)? That sounds like some sort of deal has been made to keep the Dementors from the general population, which would get you labeled as a diabolist. Remember, once Voldemort made them a better offer, the Dementors were gone from Azkaban very quickly, so I think it's unlikely the Dementors were kept in Azkaban only using Patroni. Also, Umbridge managed to send two Dementors to Surrey; they definitely weren't controlled using Patroni (that would have been rather noticeable after all).

If it is actually possible to contain Dementors with Patroni (and to keep them contained), things would make more sense though. I'm guessing that at first, they would have herded all Dementors to an island and kept it shut off from the world. Then at some point, someone realized that putting other prisoners there would be a good idea, since there's plenty of guards anyway. It also reduces the number of guards necessary; the Dementors keep the prisoners contained, and have more happy memories to feed on without having to provide them with Patroni. It requires cutting out the Umbridge deal, but I guess a Pact-verse version of HP would never reach that point anyway. For starters, Harry telling Fudge about Voldemort coming back would be taken much more seriously, given the consequences of lying. Also, Skeeter couldn't have spread all those lies regarding him.

Now I'm thinking of Voldemort's resurrection. The reason Voldemort initiated a duel rather than killing Harry while bound could fit for karma-related reasons. Voldemort existing as a shade also has the Pactverse explanation of Voldemort becoming a little (or a lot) more Other.
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