White Wolf Publishing

White Wolf Publishing

Unread postby Shoubushi » January 20th, 2009, 9:09 pm

Which one did you like better? The old Vampire, Werewolf, and Mage or the new versions? Why?

Me, I'm sitting the fence. I like the old Werewolf (as well as Demon) because of the interesting idea of actively trying to stop the impending Apocalypse. You know it's going to happen no matter what you do, really your best hope is to save as many as you can. The new Werewolf is kinda "meh" to me. The whole "spirit police" idea isn't that appealing, and unlike some of the other games it is really hard to get the horror going. It doesn't matter in Werewolf if you aren't the meanest thing out there. You're playing a pack of magic wielding werewolves, whatever is meaner than you is practically automatically a Deus Ex Machina.

On the flipside I really really like the new Vampire. White Wolf did a really good job on getting ahold of some horror elements in the new edition. They utterly failed at that in my opinion for the old edition, the "scary" stuff were again the Deus Ex Machina. The methuselahs, antediluvians, Caine, Lilith, and other such things. Anything else was just kinda meh. Whereas in the new version, well I just got done reading sourcebooks "Mythologies" and "VII" and both of them left me feeling somewhat creeped out at points. To me, that's pretty good storytelling.
Spoiler: show
Mythologies- A strange disease of the mind that effects only vampires. It messes with their "frenzy", instead of being flight responses it becomes terribly self destructive. And it's ridiculously easy to catch and become epidemic. Living paintings that can come alive and attack. A strange spirit, the vampire version of "Bloody Mary" but in this case he's very real and once you've gained his attention he keeps coming for you. A supernatural, Lovecraftian, disaster causing creature of epic proportions that comes around when the vampire population in a city has gotten too large. Finally, my personal favorite, ghouls (vampire blood addicted human servants) that aren't as servile as they appear and are actively working on destroying all vampires from within their own organizations.

VII- VII is explained in the main sourcebook as being a group of vampires that kill other vampires for no discernable reason. Even capture and interrogation using supernatural means reveals nothing. One of the backstories presented is that VII is entirely made up of brainwashed vampires. Sleeper agents that don't know that they are members and can become deadly at any time. They also can easily do the same to other vampires. The guy holding the reins? There isn't one, its the blood itself that's directing these creatures.
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Re: White Wolf Publishing

Unread postby bibliophile20 » January 21st, 2009, 12:46 am

I'm currently in the midst of an oWoD Vampire game that I got shanghaied into playing; I'll get back to you on this topic once I've played a nWoD Vampire game.
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Re: White Wolf Publishing

Unread postby forbin » January 21st, 2009, 1:06 am

I've played a little bit of old style WoD; mainly Vampire, Wraith and Changeling. Also played a bit of Aberrant in a campaign run by the Authorlord awhile back which was a load of fun, but I haven't really had much reason to look at the newer stuff. Is it really that different from what they put out before?
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Re: White Wolf Publishing

Unread postby Shoubushi » January 21st, 2009, 8:30 am

It is very different. Take Werewolf for example. Like I explained above, the overarching object of the old game was to postpone and eventually fight the Apocalypse. Every werewolf in the world (theoretically, this obviously doesn't count the bad guy werewolves) had that same goal. The new Werewolf has them acting as a type of "spirit police" there is no looming Apocalypse or anything like that. When the world began, their ancestor spirit kept the spirit world from spilling over into the real one, now it's their job.

Mage, as far as I can tell, has only changed mechanics. Then again, I never really paid much attention to Mage. All that stuff about paradox and yada yada gives me a headache.

I don't know what the old Changeling was like but the new one is IMHO full of awesome and win. You're a human that got trapped in the Fae Realm in some way or another and then managed to escape. It's a game full of wonderful, old-school, fairy magic and madness.

The new Vampire is definitely different. The whole "jyhad" thing is gone and no one knows where vampires came from. People have theories but no one really knows for sure. The clans are a lot different, and there are less of them. Though if you liked ones like Brujah, you can still do that, they just happen to be a special bloodline of Gangrel now. Torpor is pretty bad in the new Vampire, once you are in it, it's hard to come out the same. It messes with your memories, erasing some and adding others that weren't there in the first place.
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Re: White Wolf Publishing

Unread postby bibliophile20 » January 21st, 2009, 11:38 am

Ouch. So no more getting knocked into torpor in a fight and hoping your allies feed you some vitae to bring you out of it, eh?

Can you still play Tremere (or blood mages, at least) in the nWoD Vampire?
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Re: White Wolf Publishing

Unread postby Shoubushi » January 21st, 2009, 3:17 pm

Blood magic has been pretty well changed as well. There is no specific clan that practices it, instead you have two "Covenants" which are kinda like political or religious groups, that happen to have different magic powers.

The first is Lancea Sanctum, who happen to take their teaching from Longinus. Y'know, the Roman soldier that speared Jesus? In the new Vampire, that damned him to vampirism. The Lancea believe that vampires are on earth to remind mankind that there are things that go bump in the night and that God is their only salvation from those things. Their magic is very biblical in nature.

The second is the Circle of the Crone. Basically take everything bad you have ever heard about Pagans and apply it to these fellows. Bloody sacrifices, obscene rituals, you name it and you got it. Their magics are also pretty powerful.

The last Covenant that has some special powers (There are 3 others but they are all political) is the Ordo Dracul. I'm sure from the name you can guess who the founder was. These guys don't really have magic per se. Instead they have found ways to circumvent certain aspects of the vampire curse. Stuff like you have less chance of frenzying, you can survive a little sunlight during dawn and twilight, you are a little more efficient with your vitae. Stuff like that.

The main clans are Gangrel (unchanged from before), Ventrue (mostly unchanged), Nosferatu (unchanged), Mekhet (i don't remember them from the old rules, think of them as a kind of knowledge seeker), and Daeva (sensual and hedonistic). Each of these have smaller "bloodlines" within for further customization. Like the bad boy biker Brujah (say that 5 times as fast I dare you) coming from Gangrel, Toreador springs from Daeva, and Malkavians are back as an especially crazy form of Ventrue.

As for your question about torpor, that can still theoretically happen, but it's harder now. You can have all the Vitae in the world but it still won't wake you up any earlier if you go into torpor via wounds. It's all dependent on your Humanity, the higher it is, the less time you spend asleep and the less chance you have of coming out crazy. The healing and Vitae only help you come out of it healthier than just barely alive.
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Re: White Wolf Publishing

Unread postby unknown517 » February 25th, 2009, 9:59 pm

With regards to White Wolf Publishing -

I keep on pondering a Naruto system using the Exalted rules (modified, of course). Jutsus (and certain other supernatural thingies, like Bloodlines and Jinchuuriki status) would be charms, etc.
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Re: White Wolf Publishing

Unread postby Tom Mathews » February 26th, 2009, 11:03 am

You mean you're thinking of using the White Wold Street Fighter RPG and use Exalted and the other lines to get more abilites? :)
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Re: White Wolf Publishing

Unread postby Shoubushi » March 1st, 2009, 8:10 pm

I've never played or ever really looked into Exalted. How is it? I've read the Street Fighter RPG before and have a copy on PDF...I wasn't too terribly impressed though.
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Re: White Wolf Publishing

Unread postby unknown517 » March 4th, 2009, 3:51 pm

I've never played or ever really looked into Exalted. How is it? I've read the Street Fighter RPG before and have a copy on PDF...I wasn't too terribly impressed though.
Honestly, Exalted is a hell of a lot of fun. It's a kung-fu meets The Odyssey kind of game, with lots of high-flying action stuff not only allowed but explicitly encouraged within the framework of the mechanics. It has its weaknesses - as a White Wolf game, it falls apart if a player really pushes hard at the combat system (I can, given a few hundred XP, build a Twilight Caste Solar who literally cannot die, short of old age...and there are Charms for that, too).

I can go into more detail with regards to the setting and how the system works, if you'd like, but I don't want to throw together a forty-page treatise and drown you in dicepools if you just wanted a quick opinion.
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Re: White Wolf Publishing

Unread postby Shoubushi » March 4th, 2009, 9:58 pm

That certainly does sound fun, so basically its like playing your own version of Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon? At times at least?
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Re: White Wolf Publishing

Unread postby unknown517 » March 5th, 2009, 4:36 am

Essentially, yes. It's very wuxia, though the PCs tend to kick reason to the curb right out the gate. For example: the magical abilities in Exalted are called Charms, and are organized into twenty-five trees based on the respective abilities - Dodge, Melee, Linguistics (writing and shit), Athletics, and so on (unless you're a Lunar or Alchemical, whereupon they're based on the 9 Attributes instead, but that's complicated). Both Dodge and Melee have charms that, for a fairly trivial cost, allow you to absolutely negate an attack you are aware of, no matter what. Your opponent could be throwing down a hyper-expensive super attack that could kill God twice over, but if you spend the money for the charm, you dodge/parry it, no questions asked.

With regards to Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon - yeah, you can be hopping from treetop to treetop right out of the box. And I can think of about twenty canon, discrete Martial Arts you can learn. Basically it's a lot of fun, though I'm poor at explaining it.
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Re: White Wolf Publishing

Unread postby Shoubushi » March 5th, 2009, 8:44 pm

Hmmmm, that charm you just mentioned sounds like a Min/Max's dream. Still I may have to check it out one day, if I ever get the chance and find other people willing to play. That's always the problems plaguing me and gaming. Time and people.
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Re: White Wolf Publishing

Unread postby unknown517 » March 6th, 2009, 2:04 am

It's not really min-maxing - the game is built around that power scale. When I say you can get that charm at character creation, I mean trivially. Focus on either of the Abilities listed and it's right there, early in the Charm trees.
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Re: White Wolf Publishing

Unread postby Jasruv » August 3rd, 2009, 1:26 am

With regards to White Wolf Publishing -

I keep on pondering a Naruto system using the Exalted rules (modified, of course). Jutsus (and certain other supernatural thingies, like Bloodlines and Jinchuuriki status) would be charms, etc.
Actually I had the thought to use a modified version of the rules from Abberant.

The Storytelling system that White Wolf uses is mostly dependent on the quality of your GM.

But the sheer over the top power that some of the ninja from Naruto can express fits in well with the power of Novas from Abberant. Blood Limits could be Physical mutations from Taint, Quantum would become Chakra Capacity, etc....

Maybe the Naruto-verse is the future of a full on Nova clash that devasated the planet?
I don't believe in overkill, but I do believe in economy of force. Which is why I don't use tactical nuclear devices to get rid of gnats that are annoying me. Well, not often anyway.

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Stories do not exist to warn you of monsters. You knew that monsters existed before you could speak, before you could walk. Stories exist to tell you monsters can be defeated.
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Re: White Wolf Publishing

Unread postby Chuckg » August 3rd, 2009, 2:55 am

Actually, Exalted would be closer to Naruto, especially the rules for Dragon-Blooded.
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Re: White Wolf Publishing

Unread postby Kal » August 19th, 2009, 4:16 pm

I used to play Vamp: Masquerade. Does this new version also have the schisem in Kindred of Camarilla vs Sabbat? Those used to be some of the more enjoyable plot archs during my LARP days. :geek: Beyond Gangril, are there other idependents, like the Assimites or Giavonni?

It sounds like they were trying to make the systems more compatible. I know this was an issue when the 2 LARPs of the vamp and the were's had merged storylines and we played together. The narrators tried, but sometimes it fell short.
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Re: White Wolf Publishing

Unread postby Chuckg » August 19th, 2009, 5:36 pm

Requiem has what I consider to be a more sensible arrangement than Masquerade: although clans still exist, vampires generally organize by Covenant (political affiliation/philosophy) rather than clan.

Also, the Camarilla is now vampiric legend, the overarcing organization of Kindred that fell with the fall of Rome. Its the new Carthage, basically, although they don't tell of it as a golden age, simply a great time when vampires had much influence on mortal society and the same rules applied across all cities, and all that.

Requiem is, essentially, the anarch game: while the Covenants and the Clans are generally the same everywhere you go (oral tradition, written tradition, history, etc), and keep in touch, with the possible exception of the church of the Lancea Sanctum there is no formal organization above the city-state level. So, basically, the DM has every reason to make the ruling organization, philosophy, and style of his campaign city pretty much anything he wants. Vampiric gang wars of all-against-all and no Prince whatsoever? Entirely possible. A strong Prince ruling in classic Camarilla-style fashion, with all the trope of 1e Vampire the Masquerade? Again, entirely possible. Weird vampire cult ruling the city? Yup. Heck, the "Shadows of Mexico" supp presents three different possible Princes for Mexico City alone -- a brutal warlord who controls all the street gangs of Mexico City from prison and runs an empire of fear, an urbane and scheming crime boss who collects 'tribute' from every vampire within a hundred miles but otherwise runs a fair arrangement; and an ancient Aztec priestess who rules via the velvet glove rather than the iron fist.

To sum up the five major covenants very very quickly:

* Invictus -- The Ventrue philosophy of the old World of Darkness, now as a political faction rather than a bloodline. Their motto is basically 'Everybody else offers some kind of bullshit belief system or obsesses over some kind of freaky ancient knowledge. We're more practical. We just offer wealth and power in return for loyalty and competent service. Mmmm, wealth and power. Wouldn't you like to have some?' Invictus-ruled domains tend to look the most like old Camarilla princedoms from 1e.

Despite the ethical philosophy of this faction best being summed up as "Ain't got any", the Invictus still have the relative virtue of sincerity: its actually /against/ Invictus tenets to screw over your subordinates like a stereotypical 1e ancient elder. The founders of the Invictus were smart enough to know that if you promote your organization as a meritocracy, you actually have to promote based on merit, or else eventually people are going to just stop buying into the system.

* Church of the Lancea Sanctum -- 'There is a reason God created the curse of vampirism. We exist to harrow and test the faithful.' Perhaps the next most significant movement after the Invictus, the Lancea offer the comfort of, well, a belief system that actually tries to help you deal with being an undying monster what has to drink the blood of the living. Between the sincerity of their believers and their #'s, they're generally a significant political force.

* The Carthian Movement -- The Carthians are, well, basically, they're the Sabbat and anarch philosophy minus all the monstrous elements. Directly opposed to the Invictus, they're the rabble-rousers, the power to the people types, the young turks who want to break free of the stifling rule of the elders. The youngest and most 'modern' of the covenants, they're still a major force because there's a lot more have-nots than haves, and not everybody has the 'Someday, I'll be on top!' patience of the lower ranks of the Invictus, forex.

Ironically, Carthian-ruled territories tend to be the most messed-up cities to live in, both for Kindred and mortals. They don't like to admit it, but Carthians make far better gadflies than administrators. :)

* The Ordo Dracul -- 'Have any of you actually tried to *study* the vampiric condition? I mean, its only a total transformation of our bodies and souls that we have to live with for eternity, its not like that's *important* or anything'. One of the smallest covenants, the Ordo Dracul are still significant for one very simple reason: having devoted centuries of mystic study to the ins and outs of vampirism, they have the most control over it. The Ordo-specific disciplines and merits involve greater control of the Beast and buying off or mitigating vampiric weaknesses, including sunlight. Stereotypically, they are the cloistered scholars and natural philosophers of the Kindred.

* The Circle of the Crone -- Blood magic. Old, pagan religion. Witchcraft. The power of the ancient ways. This is what the Crone are all about. You can probably imagine how well them and the Lancea get along.

Note: the Crone-specific discipline, Cruac, is the only one in the game that has a Humanity maximum... and the higher you get in the discipline, the lower your maximum possible Humanity gets. When they say freaky blood magic, they ain't jokin'.

Anyway, here endeth the lesson. :)
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Re: White Wolf Publishing

Unread postby Melverne » October 26th, 2011, 10:26 pm

I am not happy. Not at all. It appears that the gaming bug has bit. I'm blaming it on this board (making me feel nostalgic) and the season (the spooky fall not to mention it will soon be too cold to do anything outside). I was browsing through the WOD books again. Of all things I am contemplating getting a game going. The gaming medium I would choose is GURPS. Simple to pick up for any role player. Typical 3d6 system, there are far more complex systems out there. If I did, is there any interest? I would want to game at least once a month maybe bi weekly if possible. I just wanted to check before I invest any resources (time, money etc).

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