Mass Effect Discussion Thread (Warning: Spoilers)

[Arganaut]

Alright, although we have two previous threads based on Mass Effect, they were rather specific in their topics (one concerning the ugly mugs of one guy's Shepard, and the other concerning itself specifically with the new/incoming/old squad mates in Mass Effect 2). This thread will primarily serve to just wrangle all the conversations together into one cohesive topic.

Now then, picking up from where we left off in the Naruto Manga Discussion Thread;

You see, that's what kind of gets me. Your a soldier, and you'd think you'd be expected to go about using the best combat tactics in any situation, including killing your enemies while they have their guard down. You're going to have to kill them anyway, so why not just do it while they aren't ready for you?

On the topic of the Citadel Council members... I'll admit, I'm just as frustrated as any other fan out there about this disbelieving behavior as it concerned/concerns the Reapers. However... I always find myself looking at the topic from their perspective, and often I find myself saying 'Okay, yeah, that does sound a tad bit far fetched, and the only evidence this guy's giving me is a bad dream he had, and the voice recording of a rouge Spectre and an Asari Matriarch'.

Granted, the voice recording is pretty solid in and of itself, but the Council's option for why Saren would bring up the Reaper's isn't too far out of the realm of reality...

Hopefully we'll have more solid evidence of the Reapers going into ME3. Maybe EDI had some recordings of the human Reaper on the Collector Base stored up.

[Magnificate]

On the topic of the Citadel Council members... I'll admit, I'm just as frustrated as any other fan out there about this disbelieving behavior as it concerned/concerns the Reapers.

My biggest complain for the Council is not their ‘passive’ approach to the Reaper issue, but the fact it doesn’t really matter whether you saved them or not. Citadel Council is mostly irrelevant in the plot of Mass Effect 2. Thus the arguably most important choice from Mass Effect 1 is rendered moot. Unless Mass Effect 3 rectifies that I’ll be severely disappointed. Then again it’s pretty obvious Mass Effect 3 will resolve around ‘Gondor Calls for Aid’, so we might still see Ascension kicking major ass.

For those interested, portraits of my Commander Shepard.

Paragon:

Spoiler: show

Renegate:

Spoiler: show

[Arganaut]

Hehehehe, didn't think of it like that. I wonder if they'd put an easter egg related to that into the game.

On a serious note, though, keeping yourself on the Council's good side (via becoming a Spectre again) will hopefully contribute a great deal to the final battle... in fact, now that I think about it, just about every Paragon option somehow opens up a 'we're relying on you to answer the call' option in the third game.

The Council, the Rachni, the Quarians, the Krogans, et cetera are all sort of drawn to your side via Paragon options (saving the Council, becoming a Spectre again, letting the Queen live, rallying the crowd at Tali's trial, not killing Wrex)...

Then again, Renegade players aren't entirely screwed either. They have Cerberus, a Collector Base, and (maybe) the Krogans on their side... it'll be interesting to see which set of allies prove to be more fruitful than the other.

Also, interesting pictures... makes me wonder if anyone actually decided to keep the scars when they go down the Renegade path.

[Phht]

Scars warn people too fast that something nasty's coming. ;)

Honestly, the only real impact saving the Council has in ME2 (that I noticed) is that you don't have widespread anti-human sentiment. Of course, taking the 'default' package for ME2 instead of loading an ME1 person shows that Sheppard was an asshole that apparently took every Renegade option he could. I mean, he put UDINA on the Council after letting the previous one die. That Sheppard clearly deserved to get spaced.

--

First time I played Mass Effect, I thought there could be a 'bad end' if I couldn't kill Sovereign. So I let the Council die to ensure I had sufficient firepower to kill the Reaper. Later I learned that I could let he Council live and still save the day, but meh! Then I started ME2 and all that nasty anti-human sentiment. So I went back to ME1 and made the other choice. And somehow managed to improve human-turian relations and up the galaxy's view of humans by sacrificing human lives to save a bunch of pompous windbags.

I should point out that Sheppard boarded a derelict reaper in ME2. Shouldn't he be able to use the images of it during their approach to it to point out that this thing matches the design of the destroyed vessel from the Citadel battle? Plus, I can't see Sheppard not using his omnitool to record the various messages he came across while checking it out. And he could pass along the Cerebus reports on the find (including why it's derelict), though I dunno how much validity the Council would give those reports due to Cerebus being the one that wrote them.

Heck, I frequently wonder why it seems like the armor in ME lacks head-mounted camera (for better AAR, naturally). Surely the Council has managed to recover enough chunks of Geth ships that they have a good idea of what the interior looks like and thus that the reaper interior is (hopefully) not similar in design.

--

Though I frequently wonder why the Alliance doesn't take the Migrant Fleet in. The Quarians are fucking fantastic mechanics, and not half bad soldiers. They'd be a good asset for the Alliance, and could use a home after being the galaxy's pariahs for centuries. As a bonus, it would probably annoy the heck out of the Council ("No no, we get along fine with aliens. Just look at how well the Quarians are working with us. We just don't like governments that 'punish' a species to the point that their immune systems degrade and they have to wear containment suits from birth to death. It reminds us of bad chapters in our own past.").

[gman391]

Valid questions. As for the council. They're pretty much putting their heads in the sand. I doubt any amount of proof would convince them. They are committed to a system which can not deal with the Reapers. Not to bad mouth the Asari, Salarians or Turians. But they haven't had a full out war in a 1000 years. Even the First Contact War was limited in scope.

And with the possible exception of the Turians. None of them are prepared for a War with mechanical elderitch abominations on a galactic scale. By necessity it would be a Total War that would require everything they have been thrown into fighting.

Such effort would fundamentally change the entire system they've spent millenia making. That they don't want to do that is sad but unsurprising. From everything I've read in the fluff they aren't very adaptable

The Alliance taking in the Quarians? I think that's a question of logistics more than anything else. But it would make a Nice AU
(Shit how much more awesome would've the first Normandy have been with a dedicated team of Quarians designing/building it?)

[Arganaut]

Oh my yes, that would be quite the spectacle right there. I've been hearing on the grape vine that there's going to be some sort of resolution to the Quarian dilemma in ME3, hopefully this will be one of the options (though, not too sure how happy the Quarians would be, seeing as how other options would possibly include getting their home world back). It would indeed make for an epic AU, though for it to be realistic one would have to examine Quarian ship builds and calculate in how a Quarian/Human vessel would differ from a Turian/Human vessel.

And when you put it that way, I see why one might not wish to have the scars so blatantly in view. Looking innocent on the outside while being some badass complete monster on the inside would be quite the advantage to have

Also, yeah, I don't really see the Council taking much of what we did during ME2 seriously. especially since it was under the guidance of TIM. I mean, a person who was/is still apart of an extremist human group hell bent on spreading human dominance throughout the galaxy just so happens to waltz up to you with hordes of evidence showcasing the existence of the Reaper threat after having been dead for two year and AWOL for several months after having come back to life... mighty suspicious.

On my first play through I ended up saving the Council. The Ascension was a pretty big ship, so I figured it had some pretty heavy weaponry to protect itself. I figured that keeping that big ship around might've been strategically worth throwing a few smaller Alliance ships to protect it...

Oh, and, you know, the whole 'not making humanity look like assholes' thing...

[Magnificate]

I figured that keeping that big ship around might've been strategically worth throwing a few smaller Alliance ships to protect it.

That’s the other matter that bugs me. We’ve got this epic battle and we went for the sacrifice option. Total human losses? 8 Cruisers, conveniently listed in one of my screenshots above, not even 1000 personnel dead. Shouldn’t it be significantly more?

Though, you gotta admit, both version of Citadel battle cinematic were awesome. “It’s the Alliance!”

As for Quarian Decision in MA2. Really, my first reaction upon hearing that Quarians are considering retaking their homeworld was to comment out loud “You’re *** suicidal!”. As far as I understand, the Geth control numerous systems, while you control one giant mostly non-combatant fleet. Your enemy is orders of magnitude stronger! No way to win! That being said, I predict that if you incited war at the End of Tali’s Quest* and destroyed the heretic Geth at the end of Legion’s Quest then Quarians will win the war in MA3 due to that reprogramming trick Tali’s father was working on.

*Tali’s Quest… Quarian Quest… Dammit!

[Arganaut]

Same here. I always found it mind-numbingly insane how Quarians, whom are highly intelligent beings (but not so cold or logical like, say, Asari or Turians) would actually consider war against the Geth in their current status. Do they just have a death wish, or have they been inside the suits for so long that the masks have not only begun to cloud their vision, but their judgment as well?

Still, I suppose if I spent my entire life inside a suit, not being able to touch any of my loved ones without the possibility of dieing, I might be a liiiiiiiitle crazy as well. Thank goodness Tali is completely mostly somewhat at least a little more sane than the rest of the Quarians, and can be reasoned with on this note.

[Chuckg]

I might point out that the 'reclaim the homeworld!' quarians were also the guys working on hacking geth. So, not quite that irrational.

[Arganaut]

I'd point out that now all those Quarians whom were involved in the attempt are dead. So yeah, it was still pretty irrational.

[gman391]

I'd point out that they may not have much choice. I might be misremembering the fluff. But the Quarians tried to get the Council to allow them to settle a new world. They said no. So if the other races won't give you a world without a fight. May as well be for your original one.

[Phht]

Yeah. After the Quarians botched their genocide attempt, they asked for help from the Council. Council refused and, after the Quarians had to flee their worlds, closed the Quarian embassy on the Citadel. Think about that. The embassy is one of the steps to being recognized as a member of Council space. And the Council shut it down in response to the Geth gaining sentience. This isn't a smack on the wrist or sanctions or anything. This is flat out refusal to hear anything from the Quarians not presented by someone that does have an embassy. And who would be crazy enough to do that after seeing what happened to Quarian representation on the Citadel?

And to top it all off, the Council constantly refuses to allow the Quarians to settle anywhere. So they can't just let it go at "poor dears lost your home worlds. I hope you learned your lesson" or "You'll no longer have any representation on the Citadel in response to your actions." This is "Well, you fucked up and botched cleaning up your mess. So since you didn't have to decency to get yourselves wiped from existence by your mess, we're not going to leave you with just the pain of losing your home worlds. You're dead to us now, and we'll make you miserable for the rest of your species' pathetic existence because you might've created a new galactic threat." But hey, at least they didn't commit genocide on the Quarians!

To be honest, my biggest issues with Quarians trying to retake their worlds are quite simple. First, how many actual warships do the Quarians have to battle the Geth fleet? And second, how the hell do you expect to win a war when all the geth have to do is breach the suit and let bacteria and virii do their job for them? The Quarians don't have massive supplies of antibiotics to handle such things.

--

When it comes to Quarians in the Alliance, I kinda felt that we wouldn't really see a visual influence from them. I mean, they've had to make due with whatever ships and tech they can acquire for centuries. Would they really still have a visual style (other than what we see in the containment suits) by that point? But that also doesn't mean that you won't notice Quarian influence on a ship. The ship systems would probably end up more efficient and easier to repair. Plus, many Quarians would likely end up as ship engineers.

--

Actually, when it comes to the Battle of the Citadel, I can see low cruiser losses. The Citadel fleet was practically wiped out battling the Geth, and Fifth Fleet arrived at the tail end of the battle. All they had to do was blindside the remaining Geth, kill them all, then go shoot up a Reaper. You might complain that those were low losses, but we have to consider what the losses for the Citadel Fleet were. The Alliance fleet came off light because the Citadel fleet went down shooting and making the Geth pay for every kilometer of space crossed. According to one of the ME novels, the greater part of the Citadel fleet was destroyed and the Alliance Navy is the dominant military power in Citadel space.

So don't take it as "omg, it's unrealistic to take such low losses" but rather as "the Alliance was doing mop-up."

[gman391]

When it comes to Quarians in the Alliance, I kinda felt that we wouldn't really see a visual influence from them. I mean, they've had to make due with whatever ships and tech they can acquire for centuries. Would they really still have a visual style (other than what we see in the containment suits) by that point? But that also doesn't mean that you won't notice Quarian influence on a ship. The ship systems would probably end up more efficient and easier to repair. Plus, many Quarians would likely end up as ship engineers.

I was thinking more along the lines of technical capability. The Quarians are shown to be one of the most tech savvy species in the galaxy. Give them a place to stay and a decent budget with a goal that consists of "Find ways to kill Geth....and everything else really"

I'd like to see the shit they'd come up with.

Six years later:
"You've found a way to blow up a sun? Hot damn get that stuff into production."

[Phht]

No no. Just get them to work on creating and equipping a warship twice the length of any known dreadnought in Citadel space. You'd be creating a new weight class of warship. :D

Think about how powerful the spinal guns of 800-1000m long dreadnoughts are. And then ask for a spinal weapon for a ship double the length.

If nothing else, you'll scare the shit out of anyone that finds out about the project goals.

[gman391]

Would the first Super-Dreadnought be named David Weber? (Sorry couldn't resist)

Okay this should really go into the plot bunny's thread. You know like "Terra Ascendant" Only with out sucking and pointless lemons.

Turian Patrol around Shanxi

"What the hell is that?"

"It looks like someone gave a dreadnought steroids."

"Is it firing on us?"

"Oh Sh----"
*Planet shattering kaboom"

As for the whole Paragon/Renegade thing. As a general I play as pure a Paragon as I can. But even I take a Renegade interrupt when I know there's going to be fight. (The only one that really bothers me is offing that merc tech on Omega. Yeah he's a jackass but he's just doing his job)

So what's everyone's favorite class?
I like Vanguard and Infiltrator myself.

[Arganaut]

I'm not disagreeing that the Quarians have been given the SEVERELY short end of the stick, bordering on being given no stick at all. The Council's reaction to the Quarian's mistake concerning the Geth, even if you try to look at it from the Council's prospective, was completely over the line. Like you said Phht, rather than try to help the newly world-less species whom are incredibly useful and were already members of Citadel Space, you kick them out of Citadel Space and then refuse to let them settle anywhere else because they MIGHT have made a new galactic threat that would be even greater than the Rachni.

Anyway, I wasn't thinking so much that the Quarians would add to an aesthetic design to the ships (like you said, its been so long they probably don't even have one anymore), but more or less imagining what the Normandy would look like upon taking out Turian influences. Though I could imagine certain Quarian needs (like a clean room) being added to the Normandy in any case.

Also, I don't think we'd be getting Super-Dreadnought in time for what would otherwise be the 'First Contact War'. Really, the war took place rather soon after we even began to discover the Mass Relays, and even if we were to somehow discover the Quarians before the Turians, the amount of time it would take to negotiate any sort of deal concerning an alliance/species adoption ala the Hanar/Drell relation would probably leave us discovering Citadel Space long before we'd be getting the mega ships...

That actually brings up a rather hilarious set of ideas into my mind concerning the first 'Human-Quarian' interaction in said AU. We wouldn't have translators available, so I can only imagine the hijinks involved with even being hailed by the Migrant Fleet, or us being confused as hell as they go into full on panic when we step onto their ships without suits on...

[Magnificate]

So what's everyone's favorite class?
I like Vanguard and Infiltrator myself.

Vanguard always seemed a strange class for me due to its Charge ability. Unless enemies are very spread out or it’s just few of them are left Charging into combat is a suicide. When enemies are spread out or not numerous you don’t need Charge anyway, so all in all it seems kind of pointless. Or it could be because I never learned to use Charge properly. :D (Above assumes Insanity difficulty.)
My Paragon Shepard was an Infiltrator. I like that class. Tactical Cloak saved me many times. I never had good targeting skills, so the fights tended to last very long. My Renegate Shepard was a Sentinel. Extra shields were really reassuring and always useful. Looked wicked cool as well.

[ewuvi]

Infiltrator here. I love the Sniper Rifle to pieces.

Garrus is my team medic.

[Phht]

I actually pulled the super-dreadnought idea from an ME AU plot bunny I had back in April. But that baby would've also had the MHW-style weapons rather than MACs. Also, feasibility studies of figuring out if it's possible to place a mini-relay into the ship so it can be its unit's own mass relay. But nothing was expected from the project until at least the 2190s.

(for reference, the plot bunny centered on the idea that the derelict reaper was recovered by the Alliance near the end of the 1CW and the Alliance didn't join the Citadel - no embassy, etc)

--

I dunno if the Normandy would be a Quarian-human design effort only. It was sponsored by the Citadel Council, so they'd probably want a Council race involved. But still, a Turian-Human-Quarian design effort would be interesting. Without the Turian influence, the command deck design would be totally different (recall how much that rear admiral complained about the layout of the command deck in ME1)?

--

How do the various races communicate? I mean, everyone speaks English! Is this due to omnitool translator programs? If so, when the two meet, they can swap language packs (if the Alliance didn't get the Quarian one from the Council races) to get around the language barrier.

And I doubt that humans would go onto an unknown ships outside of full gear. Safety precaution. It's why they always send the MALP through to check the exit point of the stargate in SG-1. See what the atmosphere/etc is like and if they'll need to wear special gear.

--
I was Infiltrator in ME1. Went Vanguard in ME2 first play through. I was "man, biotics were neat to use here" by the end and tried them out next play through as an adept.

[Arganaut]

I actually pulled the super-dreadnought idea from an ME AU plot bunny I had back in April. But that baby would've also had the MHW-style weapons rather than MACs. Also, feasibility studies of figuring out if it's possible to place a mini-relay into the ship so it can be its unit's own mass relay. But nothing was expected from the project until at least the 2190s.

Very interesting ideas there, especially with the mini-relay. If a ship could have its own mini-relay... well, possibilities are endless.

Yes, I recall the rear admiral from ME1. I understand that the idea for the deck of the Normandy was borrowed from Turian specs, but I really didn't catch much about what human flight decks were supposed to be like in comparison. Are they similar to the flight decks from Star Trek, or something? INQUIRING MINDS WANT TO KNOW BIOWARE!!! Or maybe just me.

Generally the fandom's idea of communications does revolve around some kind of omni-tool translator. Common joke often used is that the translator is direct and strict, not allowing for easy (read, hilarious) understanding of human idioms or proverbs. And I do suppose that putting an Alliance-Quarian meeting after the initial run in with the Citadel would allow for the explanation of humanity being given just about every known language translator to help us integrate into galactic society.

I also see your point there. I suppose it wouldn't do for Alliance ambassadors or diplomats to walk aboard an alien spacecraft only to find that the aliens aboard might be nitrogen-based life forms instead of oxygen based. Safety first.

Anyway, going back to 'Quarians in the Alliance', something I've been wondering about would be what the exact status of the Quarians would be in non-military/civilian sectors of humanity/the Alliance, if any. I mean, don't get me wrong, I'd be just as willing to allow Quarians to settle in human settlements/colonies as much as the next guy... but with the First Contact War not even a distant memory by this possible point, there'd be a hell of a lot of push back to not allow Quarians a civilian role in the Alliance.

Hell, even if they were allowed to settle on Alliance planets, there'd be the question of just what to do with the giant fleet of ships that the Quarians had been building up for the better part of three centuries. Its not so much a question if we'd need to find an alternative use for the Migrant Fleet if Quarians would be allowed to live in Alliance space, so much as it would be what the hell to do with it (I can't imagine there'd be a lot of Quarians precisely thrilled about staying aboard the immune-system killing fleet when there's a perfectly nice series of habitable planets and colonies just waiting for them).

Which would also bring up a question of what would become of the Quarian Pilgrimage, or the goal of retrieving their home planet in the first place...

Anyway, my preferred class is the Soldier. I know, call me simple, but there's just something about that feeling of being able to crush enemies under my boot, shotgun blasting the guy next to me in the face, while sniping out some Vorcha lurking in the shadows that just gives me such a rush

[Phht]

The way I approach it is:

Get diplomatic relations going. Set up several border colonies near where the Fleet goes that can serve as rest stops for the fleet. One of those stops can have a military base (for "protecting that section of the border") with shipyards. From what I understand, a lot of the ships are pretty much used until they fall apart, so the chance to actually be able to use shipyards for repairs/refits/etc.... The goal would be to get the Fleet to settle on the various "rest stops" instead of continuing to wander the stars.

At the same time that process is happening, work with Quarian scientists to discover safe ways to buff the Quarian immune system back up to where it was before the centuries stuck on starships destroyed it. Then supply the boosters to the Quarians at the various stops and slowly integrate them into the Alliance as they start settling.

Given what humans have done to each other, I think they'd be sympathetic to the Quarians (putting aside the "for fucks sake, what did you expect to happen when you attempted genocide? For the people being wiped out to just roll over and die?").

--

I'm thinking mass relays are ~2km in length, though the prototype miniature one created on Ilos as part of the Conduit was probably the size of a frigate. So we know canonically that it's at least somewhat possible to shrink down a mass relay. Now, the feasibility of creating a mobile secondary relay within/part of a ship that can properly link into the network....

Spoiler: show

It'd kinda be like Titans in Eve (Cynosural field + jump portal generator/jump drive). You have one Super-DN (I think I shall refer to them as Titans) that sneaks in system (or just hops through the relay). It lights up its relay in 'secondary' mode, allowing any other titans nearby to link to it with theirs, and nearby fleet units can transit the "new" relay corridor using the titan. Or the nearby units pull in to the approach corridor for the titan, which then transits using its own relay while pulling the ships with it.

Or you're away from the relay and need to retreat. Titan turtles and flips on its relay. Most of the forces use it to retreat back to the nearest relay, then the remaining forces pull in to the Titan and get ferried back to the relay as it exits the area.

Each Titan that enters a star cluster increases the paths into the cluster via the relays. Say you're breaching a cluster with three Titans. First Titan goes in with a task force through the relay. It pops its relay on. The remaining two Titans then enter the system (one through relay, one through Titan) with their own task forces. Those two flip on their relays, and friendly forces have four entry points into the cluster. Heck, all three Titans can bug out to different systems or into deep space. Only way to reduce paths in would be to pin down and destroy every Titan in the cluster... and hope more didn't transit in before you could do that.

Heck, forget 1600m+ long MACs. Just the idea of a mobile secondary relay ship would scare most races.

--

I think I figured out why the Relay 314 incident occurred (and it's the Turians' fault).

Spoiler: show

You may have noticed the Cerebus Daily News on the main menu of ME2. The two I'm referring to specifically are:

“The Citadel Council welcomes the planet Turvess to the galactic community today. The planet's sentient species, the raloi, launched their first space telescope into orbit last year, which detected the presence of the asari cruiser Azedes. Tomorrow, visitors from all over the galaxy will land outside six cities on Turvess, bearing welcome wishes and gifts for the raloi. Tickets for the Council's sponsored ships have been sold out for months, and due to disease concerns, no other ships are legally allowed planetfall at that time. A comm buoy near Turvess will be dedicated to sending welcome messages to the planet for twenty galactic standard hours.”

and

“Now that the celebrations on the planet Turvess have ended, a raloi delegation has been sent to the Citadel for a three-month stay. The delegation will be educated in intergalactic law, history, alien biology and culture, and the rudiments of mass effect physics. Due to an outbreak of the H7N7 flu virus that infected the avian raloi during the opening ceremonies on their planet, the raloi on the Citadel will wear environmental suits whenever they are in contact with an alien species.”

Now, if that's standard procedure when a spaceflight capable planet is discovered, then the Turians would have assumed that the ships messing with the relay (whether or not they could recognize the ship designs) belonged to a race that had been educated on intergalactic law already and knew messing with that relay was illegal. Therefore, they did not need to send any warnings to cease and desist the illegal activity and opened fire. Unfortunately, they managed to stumble upon one of the few races that achieved space flight, discovered ME tech, and expanded into the stars without ever being found by the Citadel species. Probably the last one they encountered was the rachni. ;)

So, to the Turians it was just routine police action because there's no way a race could get that far in ME tech without the assistance and support of the Council. It also explains why the Council took so long to realize there was a war kicking off, because the Turians were still treating it as a police action that didn't need to be reported to the Council.

AND it explains why the Council stopped the fighting ASAP and did negotiations once they did learn of the fighting. After all, they probably went "You guys are preparing for full scale war with who? No such species has been encountered in Council space." Then after a brief pause as that sinks in, the Council gives a collective "Oh shit! The other side doesn't know intergalactic law and never knew what they did was illegal! Stop the shooting!"

As a bonus, consider the fact the time frame that humanity caught up to the rest of the galaxy in (without aid from the Council). They discover the Prothean cache on Mars in 2148. In 2151 they begin constructing Arcturus Station and the Alliance Navy at the nexus of several key mass relays. In 2157, humans encounter the Turians while messing with "relay 314." Shanxi campaign occurs, Council steps in after they notice the mobilization of the Turian military.

So, in nine years humanity goes from 'somewhat' space capable to able to successfully engage Turian forces to the point Turians decide to go full-scale war. Turians, who have been on the galactic stage since 700 and had a Council seat since 900.

Oh, and humanity was the first species to come up with the idea of carriers as a space naval unit. It's considered "out of the box" thinking since the Alliance was the first to field them. Considering how long the other races have been out in the galaxy using ME tech, that's incredibly sad. Given that fighters aren't commented on similarly to carriers, then those have likely been around much longer.

[JustinS1985]

One thing in ME1 that always bugged me. At the point of your game where you have to make a decision on who dies between Kaidan and Ashley. Your ship flies down, helps you drop off the nuke, and you get a distress call from Ashely. At that point you can help stay defend the nuke with Kaidan, or go to save Ashley. Whoever you leave alone gets over run by geth and dies. WHY can't you split up your party with some extras to help Kaidan defend. You know those extra guys on your ship that help unload the nuke then get back on. It might not help, but you never know that extra person or two might have been able to stall the geth long enough for everyone to get away. At least there would be a better chance than leaving one person to defend on his own while the rest of your team relaxed in the ship.

[Arganaut]

That's actually a pretty nifty way to go about it. Really, it works out pretty well for both sides: Quarians no longer have to worry about constantly replacing their broken ships with new vessels or repairing old ships with sparse or non-extant parts, plus finding itself on the good side of the galaxy's most up-and-coming race, plus eventually being able to settle on human planets, humanity finds itself with the expert opinion of a race of the best engineers in the galaxy, likely driving technology ahead by several decades... again.

Now then, for the whole genocide thing... yeah, I think humans would toss them a bone (after a quick lecture about how poorly genocide attempts usually turn out). I'd imagine that Science Fiction would allow humanity to come to understand, and empathize, with their plight more easily.

Oh wow, imagine that for a cultural impact on Quarian society. Sci-Fi like I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream, The Matrix, episodes of Star Trek featuring The Borg, as well as other tales involving machines enslaving man kind/becoming sentient (maybe add in Short Circuit I and II for a comedy/'awwww' dose of it), get passed around the Migrant Fleet/human colony dwelling Quarians.

Imagine just how blown away they'd be to see that humanity, even a century before mastering Mass Effect flight, and before ever knowing about the existence of the Geth, would've already been in deep cultural and philosophical discussions about the nature of AI, and what it means to be truly sentient/alive... and about the possible repercussions of progress.

... I'm still utterly blown away that you've thought of this concept. Truly, I can only imagine just how galaxy breaking this would be for the Mass Effect Universe is humanity actually invented this, and kept the information secret. The other races would be screwed on a level they wouldn't even be able to comprehend.

And you have to wonder if humanity was REALLY all that far out of their view in that case. I mean, look at the galaxy map in ME2. The Local Cluster where we're located isn't too far out (by Mass Relay standards) from Tuchanka. Surely someone would've noticed the sentient race evolved from primates beginning to tinker around with the idea of rockets. Then again... I suppose the only Mass Relay into our system was currently acting as Pluto's moon... so I suppose us being hidden away from the rest of the galaxy wouldn't be too far fetched.

Still, as it seems your hypothesis works out from evidence from the Cerberus Network, it does appear that the Relay 314 incident was more an unfortunate accident than the fault of any one party... granted the Turians certainly could've bothered to do some research, or at least ask what the hell we were doing...

Yeah nevermind, the Turians were still the bastards in the situation

Then again, what kind of mental capacity can you expect from a space-faring species that can't even come up with the concept of a Carrier in that long a period of time.

And as to Justin's comment... its more or less the fault of the game mechanics. If the game were ever novelized I'm sure there'd be some written reason for as to why you couldn't bring all the bastards down from the ship in order to help out.

[Phht]

... I'm still utterly blown away that you've thought of this concept. Truly, I can only imagine just how galaxy breaking this would be for the Mass Effect Universe is humanity actually invented this, and kept the information secret. The other races would be screwed on a level they wouldn't even be able to comprehend.

I enjoy finding cooler/more powerful ways to blow stuff up. Like having spinal MHW fore and aft on dreadnoughts, because no one expects to take a spinal round to the face when you're behind a dreadnought.

And you have to wonder if humanity was REALLY all that far out of their view in that case. I mean, look at the galaxy map in ME2. The Local Cluster where we're located isn't too far out (by Mass Relay standards) from Tuchanka. Surely someone would've noticed the sentient race evolved from primates beginning to tinker around with the idea of rockets. Then again... I suppose the only Mass Relay into our system was currently acting as Pluto's moon... so I suppose us being hidden away from the rest of the galaxy wouldn't be too far fetched.

I point you to the ME wiki's Mass Relay entry. The gist is that mass relay travel is instantaneous travel between two relays. Using FTL, crossing that same distance could take years or decades. As a result, I don't think races generally sent ships out to locate and explore star clusters using FTL instead of relays. Exploring systems within a cluster, sure. But not travel from one cluster to another. And Council space explorers never opened a primary relay without knowing exactly where the other end of it was (primary relays are a pair - each relay only goes to the other part of the pair) due to the rachni war. Charon Relay is probably a primary relay. It leads to Arcturus, which has three other mass relays in addition to the other part of the pair.

What this means is that, since Charon Relay was on ice for centuries, the "Local cluster" was inaccessible to Council ships unless they wanted to FTL for years or decades to it from the closest active relay cluster. I wonder if that explains why there was an actual Prothean cache discovered on Mars? The Protheans made the cache and hid it, then (or had already) iced the relay so the Reapers couldn't use it to go there, and finally FTLed to another cluster or something. Since the relay was completely shut down, Reapers couldn't visit the system and wipe all traces of the Protheans from it.

[Arganaut]

Well keep it up! You penchant for creating diabolical weapons of mass destruction is a gift to be treasured!

Hmmm... it'd certainly be ironic wouldn't it? The Reapers, priding themselves on finding a way to force galactic civilizations on a certain path of development of their choosing, with the end goal being to destroy them once again, stopped, nay, destroyed by a race they hadn't planned on becoming galactic, a race that was off the map because the Protheons made one last attempt to hide away their knowledge and technology from the mechanical doomsday squad.

That's humanity for us. We take advantage of one little screw up you made and then us it to our eternal advantage!