A Challenge...

A Challenge...

Unread postby Adran » August 15th, 2008, 9:19 pm

I have a challenge for you Viridian (and anyone else who visits this site). I made the original challenge on another forum, so I'll just link to it, but I really hope either you or someone else on here that is also an author will take up my challenge. It can either be attached to a preexisting story or written as something independent, it doesn't really matter. If you take it up Viridian, I'm not really expecting you to work on it right away, as you do have 2 fanfics that you are currently working on. You might even attach it to your Team 8 story, as that could easily work with my challenge, though you don't have to do that if you do take up the challenge.

Anyway, here's the link: http://www.fanfiction.net/topic/39472/3 ... 1/#7932850

As a note, there is more stuff mentioned about that post at the bottom. The forum belongs to another author who has his own challenges on there as well (which are above the one I posted). If you take up my challenge, please let me know so I can keep an eye out for it, as well as read up on any stories that might be linked to it.

TTYL,
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Re: A Challenge...

Unread postby Adran » August 15th, 2008, 11:57 pm

I guess I should also say that you should feel free to discuss the content of the challenge here if you want.
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Re: A Challenge...

Unread postby Tempest Kitsune » August 16th, 2008, 12:01 am

Seems more like a pro bono commission for a story than a simple challenge mate, far too many restrictions and details. But that's just IMO.
"Doesn't matter what the press says. Doesn't matter what the politicians or the mobs say. Doesn't matter if the whole country decides that something wrong is something right. This nation was founded on one principle above all else: the requirement that we stand up for what we believe, no matter the odds or the consequences. When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world — "No, you move."
— Captain America

Naruto RP Character - Takuma Itsuki, Special Jounin
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Re: A Challenge...

Unread postby Adran » August 16th, 2008, 12:07 am

While there are lots of restrictions and conditions, most of them only deal with the kekkei genkai, or are optional things. An example is Sasuke, who doesn't HAVE to be redeemed, but who I personally would like to see someone's take on how it would work out if he was, and I provided a way to deal with the Curse Seal, which would be a problem if it wasn't either altered or removed. Some of the things are even just suggestions, and don't have to be used, but the plot is left completely open, outside of requesting a focus on the clan and stuff of that nature. The "Possible Secondary Ships" section are all optional things, in case that wasn't clear in the original post, just things I would prefer if they were used.
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Re: A Challenge...

Unread postby ewuvi » August 16th, 2008, 1:20 am

Yeah, well, I'm going with Tempest on this. There is a writing contest that Ironwolf and myself have in Writers Workshop that you might want to take a look at as far as restrictions and stuff. The outline for this is just so stiff that I wouldn't do it.
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Re: A Challenge...

Unread postby Wittgen » August 16th, 2008, 1:25 am

Yeah, great challenges are a couple lines long, max. Yours reads more like an incomplete outline than anything else.
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Re: A Challenge...

Unread postby bibliophile20 » August 16th, 2008, 1:31 am

Moved topic to proper forum.
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Re: A Challenge...

Unread postby Adran » August 16th, 2008, 1:38 am

In a sense, I guess it is an incomplete outline, since the only reason I don't write the story myself is my lack of ability to actually write a good story, and a complete lack of plot ideas. The only thing I really detailed though was the Kekkei Genkai. A lot of the stuff is somewhat flexible, or at least was intended to be.

A lot of the stuff that I detailed relates to the way the Kekkei Genkai works, and that kind of had to be detailed. And I had based the way I wrote the challenge out on how the other challenges were written. I just had a bunch of stuff that was linked together that had to be detailed, unlike most of the rest of the challenges that Paladeus made.
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Re: A Challenge...

Unread postby ewuvi » August 16th, 2008, 1:43 am

Super loosen it. Cut out Kekkai Genkai and couplings, leave the scenario, and you've got yourself a decent challenge, or, leave the kekkai genkai and have the writers make it work in a story. They get to explain how the Kekkai Genkai happened. Anyways, as it is, it's tight for any author to want to do it unless they merely want to put words to an already written story board, and I'm certain that very few of us here want to do it. If you loosen it up, perhaps you could post the challenge in Writers Workshop.
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Re: A Challenge...

Unread postby Adran » August 16th, 2008, 2:03 am

The only reason I put that much detail into how the Kekkei Genkai happened is on the off chance someone wanted to write the story set well after the clan was established but without the work of figuring out what happened. Most of those are merely guidelines, with a few exceptions (such as the Kitsune partners themselves). If someone wanted to not use a certain part of the information I listed there, most of it I would have no problem allowing to be altered. The only things I really wanted for the challenge were the way the Kekkei Genkai worked.

The pairings thing shouldn't really bother people. The secondary pairings aren't required at all, and can be ignored. They were simply preferred secondary pairings if they were even included. Meaning, I would much rather Konohamaru be with Hanabi than Moegi, but I wouldn't bite someone's head off if they would rather do the other, or completely ignore any pairing stuff involving them.

As I've already stated in one of the posts there, Sasuke can even stay bad, and I won't really have a problem with it, I would simply prefer he be redeemed, as I like the thought of the two clans being on at least somewhat friendly (if often rival-like) terms.

But all this really just boils down to the fact that most of the stuff is really just guidelines if someone wanted to set the fic in the future with an already established clan without trying to come up with ideas for all the stuff. Even the three branch idea isn't really needed, though I rather liked my idea. You might also notice that a lot of Paladeus' challenges are similar to mine, though often with more plot detailed than I did, since I could never come up with any good plot ideas for my concept.
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Re: A Challenge...

Unread postby Adran » August 16th, 2008, 3:00 am

Anyway, aside from the problems with the challenge being "too strict", what do you guys think of the actual idea itself?
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Re: A Challenge...

Unread postby viridian » August 16th, 2008, 9:56 am

It's okay, I guess, but deciding the results of mixing Naruto and Hinata genes is sort of the 'fun part' of creating the story.

I hate to say it, but I agree that this challenge looks more like "someone please write me a story with this bloodline in it!".

Most challenges I've seen are very nebulous, and allow the writer to come up with the details. A somewhat famous HP challenge that spawned a lot of fics is the "Marriage Law" one, which basically says "The Ministry discovers that inbreeding is leeching the magic out of the old Pureblood families, so they pass a law requiring muggle-borns and half-bloods to get married to any Pureblood that asks (and prohibits purebloods from marrying each other)".

That's it. No required ships, no "Draco must be redeemed" notes, no "wandless magic must be used" clauses. The point it to see how multiple authors will use that idea as a springboard to jump in different directions. (The example I gave is mainly used as a pretext for shipping people that would otherwise be unbelievable in canon. My response to the challenge is a one-shot called "There's Always a Way".)

One good question to ask yourself is this: "If one hundred people accepted this challenge and wrote moderate length stories, would I want to read them all?" If the answer is no, then it's a bad challenge.

On a related tangent:

Remember the quote often attributed to Einstein that genius is "1% inspiration and 99% perspiration"?

I find that a lot of people don't really seem to get that. I frequently get messages from people saying
"Hey, I got this great idea for you to use..." and basically give me an abbreviated plot summary of a story they would like me to write for them.

You know, I get ideas all the time. That 1% is the easy part. Converting it to a finished product is the other 99% and it's damn hard work. When someone says "I get these great ideas, but I'm not good at writing plot/dialogue/character development..." they are really saying "I can't write, but I want someone else to do it for me."

In some ways, those 'gifts' are a little bit insulting, because the tone implies that the stuff I am sweating over is 'the easy part'. It also displays an amazing amount of conceit and I have to metaphorically bite my tongue to keep from going off on this amazingly generous person. :futile:

That said, I don't think this is really what you are doing Adran, as you are doing some world-building to go with it, but don't be too surprised if you don't get a lot of takers on this. Most people who do fanfiction for very long have people 'offering to give them ideas' thinking they are doing them some great favor, and this challenge gets close enough to that zone that I think it's going to turn people off.
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Re: A Challenge...

Unread postby Adran » August 16th, 2008, 2:44 pm

Alright, after hearing everyone's opinion on my challenge, I have rewritten the beginning and added a less structured challenge, with only a few basic points that are set, and no details on the Kekkei Genkai set. Please reread the beginning part of the post on the other site now that I've changed it. I'm kind of surprised everyone seems to read "Possible Secondary Ships" as "Necessary Secondary Ships", though. Everything that was in that part were simply things I'd like to see, but that were NOT needed and could be completely ignored. Just felt like I should point that out. The only other ship mentioned is Naru/Hina and that's kind of necessary for the plot.
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Re: A Challenge...

Unread postby viridian » August 16th, 2008, 6:07 pm

I understand you didn't have them set in stone, but "less is better" kind of applies here. (The "would you want to read 100 different responses to this challenge?" criterion.)
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Re: A Challenge...

Unread postby telosphilos » September 17th, 2008, 8:35 pm

It's okay, I guess, but deciding the results of mixing Naruto and Hinata genes is sort of the 'fun part' of creating the story.

I hate to say it, but I agree that this challenge looks more like "someone please write me a story with this bloodline in it!".

Most challenges I've seen are very nebulous, and allow the writer to come up with the details. A somewhat famous HP challenge that spawned a lot of fics is the "Marriage Law" one, which basically says "The Ministry discovers that inbreeding is leeching the magic out of the old Pureblood families, so they pass a law requiring muggle-borns and half-bloods to get married to any Pureblood that asks (and prohibits purebloods from marrying each other)".

That's it. No required ships, no "Draco must be redeemed" notes, no "wandless magic must be used" clauses. The point it to see how multiple authors will use that idea as a springboard to jump in different directions. (The example I gave is mainly used as a pretext for shipping people that would otherwise be unbelievable in canon. My response to the challenge is a one-shot called "There's Always a Way".)

I'm afraid you are incorrect about the "Marriage Law" challenge at the very least. It started out as a general challenge made on the WIKTT yahoogroup which is distinctly a Granger / Snape shipping group. I even wrote a response to that one that I rather liked. It was posted back after the fourth book, but before the fifth so there was a lot more room for belief in the 'ship at that point. Here is the original text of the challenge.
The Marriage Law

chelleybean@ufie.org



There have been more and more fanfics cropping up that note the interbreeding that appears to be rampant in the Pureblood families. Some fans may have even noticed how the Purebloods often seem to be depicted as less intelligent and less attractive than the half-bloods and Muggleborns, even in JK Rowling’s books themselves. Why not put this to good use?



My challenge is this: The Ministry of Magic has finally acknowledged, publicly, that the wizarding world is in danger as the continued intermarrying of the Pureblood line causes more and more stillbirths, squibs and barren children. In an attempt to save the old families The Marriage Law has been put into place. Under this law any Pureblood wizard or male head of a Pureblood family can petition for a betrothal contract giving them legal power over a Muggleborn witch. This step has been deemed necessary as they discovered Muggle families feel that betrothal contracts are too ‘old fashioned’ and would rather let their daughters ‘fall in love’. Our leading man of choice is going to get a contract on Hermione.



Deadline is 04/09/14



Conditions:

1. Your choice of how his contract comes to be:
1. Severus’ father, desperate to save the Snape family, selects her for her brilliance and power.
2. Severus falls in love with Hermione, but she rejects him, forcing him to take a more ‘high handed’ approach.
2. There must be a confrontation between Severus and Hermione’s father.
3. No Rape! Hermione must either skillfully convinced or romantically won over into being a willing participant in the marriage bed.
4. Lucius Malfoy must challenge, either by duel or wizard court, Snape’s claim to Hermione in an attempt to get her for Draco.





Freebies:



1. No limit on length or rating, but remember to warn younger readers if you’re going to be racy.
2. Be funny, serious, however you want to be.
3. Remember, jealous young snots are fun to screw with.
4. If you’re going to post on WIKTT, please put the story in the challenge folder so we can find it.
5. Enjoy yourselves!
6. I love picture, so feel free to throw in illustrations as well.

Note that the challenge deadline was September 14, 2004. What seems to happen to these challenges is that if they are popular they grow and take on a life of their own. A basic idea or two from the original challenge continue on, but most of the restrictions and such are dropped. See the Severitus Challenge for another example. I've seen it happen a few times, but I do agree that for a good challenge less is more. :duh
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Re: A Challenge...

Unread postby viridian » September 17th, 2008, 8:49 pm

Yeah, it's definitely mutated more than a little. I don't think I've read a single "Marriage Law" fic that meets those criterion. I think challenges work better when they are little better than solitary memes... and looking at how many "Marriage Law" stories were written in response to the 'stripped down' concept really underlines this.
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Re: A Challenge...

Unread postby U2P » October 11th, 2008, 9:47 pm

IMO the good challenges usually give you the name, starting point, general area you want to end at, and if they have a preferred ship that's usually there as well. Shorten yours a bit and you might get more takers. My opinion of course.
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