Changing Canon Characters

[Nasdaq]

Now, obviously, when writing a fic, some degree of drift will occur when writing characters, particularly in alt or continuations. But what I'm wondering is about people's feelings on changing a character as soon as they show up. For example, as I've been working on my large fic, I've come to the conclusion that I want to change Pain's motivation from his M.A.D based peace into blatantly lashing out in what amounts to a world-crushing pity party: his 'feel pain' is him being angsty, to a deadly level. Concept being that he lost his parents and then bad shit happened even more, and he's never really grown up. Thus, the thing Naruto beats into him is how much of a child he has been, and in the end his last moment is him realizing this, and sacrificing himself to own up for his own mistakes.

The reason for this is two prong. On one hand, I love the Pain Arc but found his motivation both lackluster, and the ending even more so. Secondly, given the nature of the fic, Naruto is sightly farther along, and slightly more mature as a result of a few small things, and I feel this helps solidify that, really prove the turning point that Naruto goes from naive wide-eyed idealist to a realistic and more mature idealist. Particularly, when he realizes that Good is not Nice, and acts accordingly.

But, back to the question, how do people feel about changing the motivation, personality, back story, or anything about a canon character in fan works?

[Magnificate]

But, back to the question, how do people feel about changing the motivation, personality, back story, or anything about a canon character in fan works?

I'm fond of both strict adherence to canon and reinterpretations. That is, if I am able to discern that was what the author intended and not the result of sloppy writting.

[gman391]

I really don't have any respect for Pein for those same reasons.

But as for changing a character. As long as there's some correlation to their original personality and it make sense for them to change I'm all for it.

[Tempest Kitsune]

Agreed, as long as there's a good reason for a change in the character which is explained at some point during the story I don't mind it at all.

[Dechstreme]

Yeah, that's what I call the "Core of the Character" right there. I think that it's a good idea to keep the basic core of the character intact, even if they have gone through any and or/many experiences that could realistically change them somewhat or a lot. Especially considering we are only borrowing them.

Hinata is an example of a character that gets shafted by both the creator AND fanfiction a lot. I'm going to avoid discussing Kishimoto's flubs, since we should all be aware of them. Fanfiction writers, aside from the possibly elite corps of authors that can actually do amazing things with her character, might actually be bigger offenders than Kishimoto.

In the case of a fanfiction, sometimes change is necessary. However, said change has to be handled in a satisfactory way. I won't say believable, because, well, it's fanfiction, home of the strange, and were unbelievable and amazing things may be found. For instance, I think that Hinata learning to use a blade of some sort to stand out from other Hyuuga and provide much asskicking is a good idea. In this case, it would be incredibly lazy and sloppy if I were to put that she always had an interest in swordplay but was too afraid of it being forbidden or looked down by her family.

However, if she were put in a situation were she had no choice or was convinced to expand beyond the Hyuuga style and build from there, I think that it could be a good change.

[unknown14966]

I will go even farther- there *should* be a line, or at least someway you can trace back your character to what he/she was, even if it's previous the beginning of the book/manga.

However, there is always the exception of the main characters in show like Naruto, where he is so damn stupid you can't work with him at all. In those cases, i make allowance for making it possible for him to read a mission plan.

[Dechstreme]

You should read the "Legacy of the Rasengan" series then. Are they in the fanfiction recommendation thread yet? Tellemicus Sundance was an author who knew how to ride the ripples from the smallest change, which started with Naruto making a choice in his past, rather than make it happen out of nowhere.

Sadly, TS pretty much quit writing the series, falling out of love with the fandom, and moving on to other projects. However, he passed on the torch to FictionReader98. He's a friend of mine, and is every bit as good as TS is.

Just so you know, Tellemicus had posted a challenge for fanfic writers and readers of his stories to make a Clash in the Land of Snow story but with the Legacy of the Rasengan cast. He was so impressed he made FR98's story canon to his series.

What a lot of people do, instead of trying to detail the ripples, is more along the lines of "Oh, he was just pretending to be an idiot all along and now he's dropping the mask and start kicking butt", making it pretty much come out of nowhere without even going into proper detail later on. Not even a bit of descriptive narrative of exposition.

[Kirai]

*Looks at Fragments and expectations*

So... yeah...

[Dechstreme]

Eh... what was that about, Kirai?

[Kirai]

Well, I think those stories do represent my opinion on changing the character rather well... at least fragments does^^

[unknown14966]

Well, I think those stories do represent my opinion on changing the character rather well... at least fragments does^^

What i like about those is that there are many things in fragments, and even expectations, that makes me think they are truly the same characters.

TS, frankly, was meh at best in changing characters, and it was hard to get the feeling that he wasn't doing a hash job.

An example, about Hinata using a weapon. If she uses a weapon, the weapon she uses should be Dependant upon her character. Is she the type to use a weapon because she feels her body isn't adapted to jyuuken, and as such she search for the weapon that she can master the best? Is she going to use a weapon that fills a lack in her abilities, and not replace those? is she going to use a weapon because *she wants to fight in a certain way*? (like maybe using a weapon that can't kill/cripple), and so on.

An insta-fail is making a character use something 'because it looks cool'.

[nfk]

An insta-fail is making a character use something 'because it looks cool'.

Like Harry Potter being a skilled sword fighter*? Magic, shmagic, I'm going to stab you! *poke* *poke*


* And by extension, everyone else he fights.

[Dechstreme]

Technically speaking "I think it might be cool" is usually how things like this start. Then, it goes into actually developing the little plot bunny properly.

Heck, that's how pretty much all good story ideas start, when you come down to it. It's a matter of how good the writer/developer/crazy fool who came up with the idea is at fleshing it out and turning it into something special that people will like.

As fanfiction will tell us, there are a lot of hacks that have good ideas, but incredibly horrid executions.

[gman391]

Okay saying.

"Alright it would be totally awesome if I turned Harry into a ninja"

Is fine for starting a story but you have to have it make sense.

For the above mentioned ideas I'd probably make Dudely a fan of all those ninja flicks in the 80's and Harry catching one. Once he finds out magic is real Harry tries to recreate the effects and it spirals from there.

Thats thing you need to have development. You make Naruto into a pacifist monk fine. But have it make sense.

[Dechstreme]

Eh.... that's kinda what I was trying to get at, Gman.

[gman391]

Fair enough I tend to do for Want of a nail type stories. (Or try to anyway)

[Nasdaq]

It's funny how stories evolve. This thought had come to me because as I wrote Pack Light, I realized it had gone from "explore minor change that fascinated me" into a "fix the problems I saw with the manga" by reworking the main offenders, in my mind: Sasuke and his motivations, Sakura and her Sasukemania, Naruto and his fluctuating maturity, and Hinata and her lack of screentime. Things like Pain's motivations evolved out of this and the story I intended to tell.

Though, it comes to mind that with Naruto-Sensei, Naruto is necessarily changed no longer the son of the hokage, and significantly older by the time many of the show events begin, his motivations change a great deal.

I've never gotten far in Legacy of the Rasengan, just never got around to starting it, even though I had it open a few times. I might have to give it a try.

[Satori]

My current plan for my far from ready to post fanfic can roughly be described as "Take about 1/4 of Sasuke's angst points and reassign them to Sakura."

Some character derailment is inevitable.

[gman391]

derailment or development?
Two very different things that sometimes look similar.
Derailment is forcing characters through unnatural growth/ Unbelievable actions in order to have them fit the story.

To the epilogue to HP was an example in many respects particularly concerning Harry.

Development is putting characters through natural growth and believable actions so the story fits around them.

You can have characters develop into bad people and have it look like derailment and vice versa a very thin line.

[Satori]

Derailment as in off the rails of canon. Eg, by making Sakura more messed in the head, I make her more focused on her ninja training, which has repercussions for Naruto and Sasuke's training as well when they're assigned to team 7. Since this Sakura is all "knowledge is power, rawr", she ends up persuading her teammates to teach each other stuff. Naruto teaches the shadowclone technique, Saskue teaches elemental recomposition, and Sakura, being a merchant's daughter, teaches the boys the Art of the Deal. This leads to different behavior. Naruto henge-ing into a pretty girl to score discounts ala girl!Ranma (he learned subtlety... yikes!). Sasuke actually starts planning his showdown with his brother on a strategic level rather than assuming that if he gets enough power he'll be able to bull through it (Dillentes Study Tactics, Professionals Study Logistics).

[gman391]

Depending on why she's like that it could be either. As I understand it she's like that because of her father dying yes? that's development then.

[Thozmp]

I'm for changing canon characters as long as it can be explained properly and isn't, "I'm just acting a certain way, 4teh lulz!" like changing Naruto's like/love of orange, he legitimate likes the color, having him hate it or it being the only thing he can get seems like a cop out.

I've got one story in the works where Naruto does change, quiet a bit, like giving him a "family" at age five. It isn't a real family as he isn't adopted, but he is an unofficial member, more or less; and something like that will change hm in that he might not be so driven for acceptance which he has (he'd still have a good amount, a handful out of the entire villege isn't much but it's better then what he had, plus some open displays of parental affection). Another change is that years later he (Naruto personally) gets a little brother, after a while he gets it into his head that he has to stop thinking of just himself, and start thinking of how his actions can affect his brother (won't happen immediately but it does happen): such as, does he risk pranking a vendor that pissed him off if it means that his brother will have to take reprecussions later? He can get ramen cheap, but he needs other things now as well which might cost him more. etc. etc.

As long as changes are believable I'll stick with it, but I typically don't like fics that include "the idiot mask" in them.

[doc.exe]

I share the same opinion. Changing canon characters is perfectly fine as long as it feels believable. It has to be the result of an organic process. NGE: Nobody Dies, for example, does it very well. Despite the fact that all the characters are completely OOC, it doesn’t feel in the least like a cop-out. All the changes feel believable and there are even hints of the original personality of the characters here and there.

That’s one of the reasons why I tend to hate Dark Naruto stories so much. It just does not feels believable that someone with so much empathy (to the point that in canon he is able to forgive someone who not only betrayed him but also has tried to kill him at least three times by now) would really become an omnicidial maniac ala Sasuke or Gaara, at least not in the way the situation is usually portrayed. The worse part: Many times those stories also incur in the derailment of other characters, not only Naruto.

The usual justification is that the villagers, his teammates or the people he trusts end up betraying him, actively trying to kill him or mistreating him in incredibly horrible ways, thus leading him to the breaking point where he can’t take any more abuse and snaps. That explanation would not be so bad by itself if not for the fact that the reason for Konoha people acting like that is usually the simple and cliched “he is the Kyuubi brat and we hate him”. The problem with that kind of hand waving is that in canon it has never been shown that the people of the village really got to such horrible extremes in their hate and mistreatment of Naruto, despite he being “the Kyuubi brat”. It’s even les justified in the case of characters like Sakura, Kakashi or even Sasuke, where the only explanation for them mistreating Naruto to that extend is that the author does not like them and is actively bashing them.

Compare that with the situation on a fanfic like Team 8. While it has not been explored that much so far, is constantly hinted that something very serious happened in the past, thus leading to the changes in the behavior of many characters. Those changes feel like a natural result of the ripple effect. The fact that Naruto is more seriously mistreated there than in canon is justified as part of a shady conspiracy, not just because the author wants to bash the characters or turn Naruto into angst concentrated.

And well, I also hate the “Idiot mask” concept. First, is an easy recipe to turn the character into a Mary Sue. Two, is a blatant shortcut for lazy writers that do not want to engage in all the work that implies believable character development. While Naruto is obviously not the sharpest knife in the kitchen, there are believable methods to make him become more intelligent and less naive (as Team 8, once again, demonstrates). It just requires work and commitment on the part of the writer. Three, it actually ignores the fact that an Idiot Hero as protagonist is not necessarily a liability when managed well, as One Piece actually demonstrates. Luffy is dumb as a brick and lacks any form of common sense, yet that is precisely the reason why he works so well as a character and is so good at what he does.

[MEKristian]

I share the same opinion. Changing canon characters is perfectly fine as long as it feels believable. It has to be the result of an organic process. NGE: Nobody Dies, for example, does it very well. Despite the fact that all the characters are completely OOC, it doesn’t feel in the least like a coup out. All the changes feel believable and there are even hints of the original personality of the characters here and there.

Cop-out. "Coup" means... *checks dictionary to be sure* a triumph, or the short form for a coup d'état.

[doc.exe]

I fixed it. Thanks.