The Blond Haired Ninja has a Syndrome

This forum is for picking apart tricky issues facing any authors in the community. Word choice, action scenes, dialoguing, or plot development. If something isn't working for you, put it up here and see what your fellow community members can make of it. Try to keep examples short and to the point as much as possible.

The Blond Haired Ninja has a Syndrome

Unread postby Psalm Of Fire » March 16th, 2011, 12:56 am

Hey guys! Been reading fan fiction again and I just had to make this post:

--

Many fanfiction writers seem afraid to call characters by their name. "No, we can't call Naruto 'Naruto'! We need to allude to it, like a middleschooler's attempt at flirting: it must be extremely implied and easy to mistake!"

...Okay, well, maybe not quite that bad. But tell me, does this list sound familiar to you?
-The Avenger
-The Noisy Genin
-The White Haired Jounin
-The Dark Hair Shinobi (What is with the hair-base titles, I mean really now!)
-The Orange-Clad Shinobi
-The Pink One (okay, that one is actually funny and therefore serves a purpose, and therefore legit)
-The Scarred Chuunin
-The Lazy Jounin
-The Whisker-Marked Boy
-The Scarecrow Ninja
-The Sharingan-User (especially quality if the following verbage is in no way related to the sharingan or sharingan techniques)
-The Spikey Haired Boy...
etc.
The list goes on. Take a moment to fill in a few more that pop into your head. I've got a moment, I'm going to use the restroom.

...Okay, back. See what I mean? Now, is this a bad thing?

Yes, yes it is.

Am I an authority on the subject? No, definitely not.

But let's look at the words of one who is. This is part of the near-daily writing articles David Farland, author of over 50 published books, New York Times best seller, and one of the most prolific and renowned teachers in Speculative Fiction:
Promising Starts, Part 2—Introducing Your Conflict, Character, and Setting

When you start to write a story, it seems self-evident that you must answer some basic questions: "Who is doing what?" "Where and when are they doing it?" "What's happening?"

Yet you would be surprised at just how many authors fail to accomplish this. There are a number of ways to goof up. One common way ...(removing non-relevant points)...

Now, usually when a new writer messes up, they neglect to tell us about the setting. But I see other problems. One other common glitch that you come across with new writers is this:

The wizard stood above the cauldron, inhaling the bitter scent of his potion as it boiled. Long white brows poked out beyond the brim of a battered robe. The man was old and haggard, his eyes reddened from too many days on too little sleep. Long had the hunter been seeking the ingredients for this potion, and so his robes were brown and stained. He looked over to where his brother lay in a twisted heap, weakened by the winter fever. Jessot's hand grasped a tong, thrust it into the green gurgling brew, and began to stir.

So my question for you, astute reader, is how many people are in the above scene? Do you think that I'm talking about one, or could it be five? Are the wizard, the man, the hunter, and Jessot all the same person?

I recall once trying to read a story where I sat down with a piece of paper, and in the first three pages found sixteen distinct people on the bridge of a star ship. I was several pages in when I suddenly realized six of the people described were in fact only one person--the captain. It turned out that a second character, described variously as a dangerous dark-haired assassin, the science officer, and his wife--was a second person on the ship. I actually had to phone this person and ask how many people were on that deck. Turned out there were only four.

In short give that character a name and don't be afraid to repeat it.
So this is what I say to "The Blond Haired Ninja" syndrome: don't be shy! Use the name.

"But won't that become repetative?" some may ask.

Generally speaking, no. And here's the reason why, if you're interested:
Spoiler: show
There is a phenomena in writing/reading that has been titled "Invisible words". These are words that readers begin to cease even seeing. The most common ones are pronouns, such as he and she, and the word "said". What happens is the word is no longer being sounded out in the auditory part of reading comprehension most people engage in, even if they are reading silently. They don't "hear" these words in their heads anymore. The words just go straight to comprehension.

That is mostly true. There's a balance there, and the exact mechanics aren't entirely known, but what stands is this: when you're describing an action by a character, if you say their name it shoots straight into the reader's head. Bam! No extra thought required.

On the other hand, every time you allude to a character it requires more thinking on the reader's part. It is asking them to do more mental work to read your story, without there being any direct benefit -- saying "the whiskered boy" over simply "Naruto" in most cases does not tell the story any better. Its a waste of your times, and the reader's precious mental faculties. That may be funny, but I'm not kidding there: the more you make it like work to read your story the less people will be willing to read it.

If that "work" has great payoff, that's another story...
In short: if you simply balance your use of s/he and the characters name, with the exception of times where a title enhances the telling of a story, your story will move faster, flow better, and your readers get more reward-to-effort.

[P.S. If you find a writer on FF.N suffering from this syndrome and could benefit from an antidote, feel free to direct them here, no insult intended.}
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Re: The Blond Haired Ninja has a Syndrome

Unread postby leon89 » March 16th, 2011, 2:48 am

counter point, as per your example with the story you thought there was more people on the bridge then there was. has less to do with the fact that he used nickname, but more to do with the fact he probably wasn't clear about it. I find giving nick names to characters gives them some more personality and allows for more dynamic then just using their name and the proper pronoun. you just have to be clear about it. my point is 'Web Slinger' and 'Wall Crawler' are associated with Spiderman which is another name for Peter Parker.

though i will admit that many stories I have read should use the characters names a bit more.
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Re: The Blond Haired Ninja has a Syndrome

Unread postby Psalm Of Fire » March 16th, 2011, 10:20 am

Ooo, discussion! How fun! A few quick questions before I respond, is it "The web slinger soared into the skyline" or "Web Slinger soared into the skyline", or how is this nickname used? (In the first example it is a 'job description', in the second it is a true nickname.) I'm a fan of "know the rules, and know when to break them", and in situations like that relies on the specifics execution a lot.
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Re: The Blond Haired Ninja has a Syndrome

Unread postby leon89 » March 16th, 2011, 12:14 pm

In that Psalm I agree with you. using 'Web Slinger' in place of 'Spiderman' out of context does not work, but if used properly it breaks up the monogamy of just Spiderman and pronoun. though overuse of nicknames you end up with the problem of nobody knows who you are talking about. so really it's about proper use. following the rules as you put it.
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Re: The Blond Haired Ninja has a Syndrome

Unread postby Wittgen » March 16th, 2011, 2:00 pm

This is funny to see. I recently pointed out to someone that they were suffering from this, and they got massively angry and yelled at me via review replies. It was pretty amusing.
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Re: The Blond Haired Ninja has a Syndrome

Unread postby MrRigger2 » March 16th, 2011, 2:41 pm

That was pretty darn funny, Witt. And I'll be honest, the concept of "invisible words" is definitely an easy one to not understand. I know I never learned about it in high school. In fact, my high school english classes spent a rather disappointing amount of time actually teaching you how to write.

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Re: The Blond Haired Ninja has a Syndrome

Unread postby QuoteMyFoot » March 16th, 2011, 6:31 pm

Agreed with everything you've said, and for some reason I do see it a lot in fanfiction. I think it makes sense in some limited circumstances (for example, 'He wondered what the boy was going to do with those water balloons' when "he" doesn't know "the boy's" name) but it should *always* be simple things: the boy, the man, etc. I didn't know there was a proper term/reason for 'invisible words', though, so thank you for being educational!
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Re: The Blond Haired Ninja has a Syndrome

Unread postby Psalm Of Fire » March 16th, 2011, 11:44 pm

:biggrin:
Thanks guys.

--
*thinks hard*
for example, 'He wondered what the boy was going to do with those water balloons' when "he" doesn't know "the boy's" name
That is exactly when something like this should be used.

I've shared this with some other folk and I've seen a trend, it sounds like this, "But they do have their uses!". The Foot that I quoted provided an excellent one. So let's flip the logic, when is it a good time to use the title-based attribution method?

When writing, the goal is to have every phrase enhance an experience more than its cost. In terms of reading, its the cognitive cost. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you can't have deep writing. If the experience enhancement is (to use arbitrary numbers) 1000 and the difficulty of the section delivering that experience enhancement is 1000 as well, then even though its really hard, it can still be really awesome. What we're dealing with is a 0/5 or 1/5 formula: no or bare benefit for a small cost that eclipses the benefit. Because how often these title-attributer are things add up swiftly, like the airlines removing a single olive from their salads and saving millions.

Numbers aside, it boils down to this: "does it significantly enhance the reading". Yes = keeper, no = trash.

So, lets get to using the "spiky haired boy" in a way that truly benifits the sentence.
Spoiler: show
Hinata grabbed a comb and tucked her elbow back against her waist. She pursed her lips and inspected his overgrown hair.

"It's not that bad," Naruto groused, watching her in the mirror.

"Naruto-kun," she said softly, "It needs a lot of help."

Naruto looked at her blankly. What was he thinking? She could never tell -- was he annoyed with her?

No, she told herself. They had been friends too long, Hinata told herself she knew better. Naruto might be annoyed with having to sit down so long for a haircut, but not with her.

At least, she hoped so...

She shook the thoughts from her head. She reached out as casually as she could -- though somehow she still made it like reaching for fire -- and grabbed a tuft of hair. It was so long it didn't even stand up like it always had. Not that Hinata minded the longer look... but, well, she had a soft spot for those memories of him thrusting his fist into the air. The spikey haired boy stood up no matter how much life seemed intent to hammer him down.

Her heart fluttered. She could feel the heat rushing to her face and the fingers that held his hair. Her hand inched back.

_It's just Ino, or something, he's just your friend._ She wasn't very convinced, but at least she could pretend. She had a script to follow now. Sort of.

She cleared a dried throat and grabbed the water spray-bottle. Naruto looked to her again. What was that look! It almost looked like he hurt. But so did his thinking expression...

She looked to his hair, an excuse to break eye contact. She'd tried to ask him before, but how could she pry? The last thing she could risk is driving him away now that they were friends.

A part of her knew it was worth the risk. Another part knew it would never happen. She tried to push the thoughts away as she began wetting his hair. Then she paused. _Too thick._ She couldn't wet it properly with a spray bottle.

She needed to wash his hair for him.
If you missed it: "Not that Hinata minded the longer look... but, well, she had a soft spot for those memories of him thrusting his fist into the air. The spikey haired boy stood up no matter how much life seemed intent to hammer him down." (And yes, apparently Hinata can cut hair now, even though that would be totally implausible with her background. I'm workin on it here, I'm workin on it!)

The way I see it, there we really get a benefit. It 1) paints visual imagery that then becomes 2) a metaphor for his defiance of life's crushing forces, and, most directly, 3) helps us relate to Hinata's view and show us why she likes the spikery.

Hm... maybe another guideline can be derived from this experiment. "If the title-attributer can be swapped for any other one describing the character, it's not uniquely adding to the narrative and should be considered for removal."

What do you guys think? If we get a few good guidelines down I'll edit the original post to make an easy reference to share with folk. If you think of any, place 'em!

Also, I'm learning writing (aren't we always :D), so I'm curious about something. I only use a title-attributer once in that section. Do you see that the "she/he/Naruto/Hinata" word usage becomes fatiguing, where, and would a title-attributer serve better there to help "flow"?
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Re: The Blond Haired Ninja has a Syndrome

Unread postby ShonenHero » March 17th, 2011, 9:09 am

I think in the same vein, this naming convention/invisible word stuff logic applies to stuff like comics. Your brain generally fills in the stuff in between panels, so when in one panel someone is throwing a punch, and the other is someone receiving said punch your mind imagines the motion in your head. It's really quite amazing what your brain is capable of.
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Re: The Blond Haired Ninja has a Syndrome

Unread postby Wittgen » March 18th, 2011, 2:23 am

A related phenomena is people replacing the word said because they feel repeating the word said over and over will somehow make their story bad or boring. They are so wrong. Cool related link.
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Re: The Blond Haired Ninja has a Syndrome

Unread postby leon89 » March 18th, 2011, 3:11 am

"Wit, if i every seriously write, i will take the advice of that video." Leon ejaculated.
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Re: The Blond Haired Ninja has a Syndrome

Unread postby Psalm Of Fire » March 18th, 2011, 11:28 am

Lolz! Very nice, guys.
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Re: The Blond Haired Ninja has a Syndrome

Unread postby emmy_k » April 6th, 2011, 1:41 pm

A related phenomena is people replacing the word said because they feel repeating the word said over and over will somehow make their story bad or boring. They are so wrong. Cool related link.
I love this.



I think that you're right for the most part about the descriptors - but I do it a fair amount because it makes it interesting for me and I'm afraid I'm not very good with character descriptions with their introductions (hangs head in shame).

But I *like* using synonyms to "said." I think they can carry a lot of the work of describing the kind of conversation people are having, especially in fast-paced dialogue.


(How's this for an example?)

"Eats shoot and leaves?" he said.

"Eats, shoots and leaves," she said.

VS.

"Eats shoots and leaves?" he grinned.

"Eats, shoots and leaves," she corrected.
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Re: The Blond Haired Ninja has a Syndrome

Unread postby Psalm Of Fire » April 7th, 2011, 12:20 pm

Hey Emmy! Glad you posted.
"Eats shoots and leaves?" he grinned.

"Eats, shoots and leaves," she corrected.
Corrected is excellent. It implies tone and approach, things that I reader may not automatically fill in (that are important to the conversation). Very nice.

'Grinned", on the other hand, doesn't really fit the action. You can't grinned out a word, but you can speak it out.so how I have been taught to write a sentence like that, would look so:

"Eats shoot and leaves?" he said with a grin / he said, grinning.

--

So character descriptions challenge you. Would you like to do a short writing exercise to sharpen that? It'll be quite fun, especially once you get it down.
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Re: The Blond Haired Ninja has a Syndrome

Unread postby emmy_k » April 7th, 2011, 1:20 pm


'Grinned", on the other hand, doesn't really fit the action. You can't grinned out a word, but you can speak it out.so how I have been taught to write a sentence like that, would look so:

"Eats shoot and leaves?" he said with a grin / he said, grinning.

--

So character descriptions challenge you. Would you like to do a short writing exercise to sharpen that? It'll be quite fun, especially once you get it down.

I think we will have to agree to disagree about speaking while grinning. (But I will say I do like a bit of short-hand verbing in the 'said' area - because lots of times people aren't just sitting around and saying things, they're often doing something at the same time. I like to think of this is a way to make the writing more concise but it could just be a personal style choice of the purple prose variety (I know I'm guilty of at least lavender tones).

But I would be interested in the exercise. Where do I go? What do I do? Does it take very long?

edited for formatting issues.
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Re: The Blond Haired Ninja has a Syndrome

Unread postby Psalm Of Fire » April 7th, 2011, 7:01 pm

Take a character and pick the three most prominent things about them: they way they walk, or look about a room, the sound of their voice, the way they speak, a potent scent coming from them, hair, eyes, or, or cloths. Or a quirk (like favoring a peculiar hat and taking it off their head everytime someone tall comes near, as if they would snatch it away).

Pick three of those attributes (or others) and describe them in 3 sentences. You can have 2 in 1 sentence and take 2 sentences for the third, or however.
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Re: The Blond Haired Ninja has a Syndrome

Unread postby Lightwhispers » April 7th, 2011, 10:39 pm

I think we will have to agree to disagree about speaking while grinning.
You certainly can speak while grinning. But "grin" is not a verb which produces words. If you want to just use that, make it a separate sentence:
"Eats shoots and leaves?" He grinned.
"He" is speaking as well as grinning, but the way it is set up, you don't actually need a "said"-alike there.
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Re: The Blond Haired Ninja has a Syndrome

Unread postby Psalm Of Fire » April 8th, 2011, 6:06 pm

I didn't want to argue the point, but Lightwhispers says my thoughts exactly. Although, in the example he gave, technically the grin follows the dialog. Words are spoken. Face grins. However, it doesn't excellent job of being concise.

If you looking to be concise over hairsplitting accuracy (assuming intention was that he smiled while talking), that would be the method I recommend. It really does help paint an image in my mind, rather than a person grinning with word seemingly coming from nowhere, like the voice of god or something. Like all man does is smile and sounds happen, he he he.

We can agree to disagree, but it was nice to say a piece.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to the results of the exercise. Do share when you're done! (I will not be critiquing those results unless you ask, this is more about helping you practice your character description skills, not making sure every word is just so.)
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Re: The Blond Haired Ninja has a Syndrome

Unread postby Farmer_10 » April 8th, 2011, 6:39 pm

Hey Psalm you a writer by trade, a student of literature or just a fanfic writer who's very enthusiastic about his hobby? For the record I'm asking out of honest curiousity cause you really seem to know your stuff and wondered what led you to think so much about this.
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Re: The Blond Haired Ninja has a Syndrome

Unread postby Psalm Of Fire » April 8th, 2011, 8:40 pm

I am an author. Not published yet, but thick in the production of two novels. One of them I hope to be a real treat for this community.

EDIT: I really don't mean to come across "holier than thou" in this thread; if it comes across that way, it's not my intention, I'm sorry. They are done with a purely benign intent.

Do tell me where I come across that way, if I am.
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Re: The Blond Haired Ninja has a Syndrome

Unread postby emmy_k » April 10th, 2011, 7:28 am

Naruto stomped into the room, his normally messy blond hair slicked back so the comb marks were still visible. His blue eyes were shooting sparks, he was so mad. He gestured vigorously towards his newly changed, freshly cleaned orange jumpsuit. "Good enough for you?" he challenged.

Jiraiya glanced up from the mirror, into which he had been practicing impressive gestures. He had been feeling quite pleased with the effect of vigorously shaking his silvery mane, then crossing his dark eyes and sticking out his tongue. He could just hear the drums and the flute and the stunned gasps. Maybe he would dab just a little bit of blackening on the mole on his nose; make it really catch the eye. As he took in his student's improved appearance, however, he did not look particularly impressed. "Hn. Now go brush your teeth."


I did spend a little bit of time on this, but not a lot. (I didn't mean any challenge to anyone, by the way. It just came out that way. However, I did spend a little time going over my WIP to see where I put int ' " ", grinned ' - and came up with only a single example. Whew.) (Sorry about taking a bit to post this.)

Generally, I shy away from descriptions. I don't want to bog down reader or plot - and don't want to take away any momentum (a la Dan Brown where the character looks at himself in the mirror and describes himself exhaustively. Yuck.) So this has been an interesting little exercise. Thanks.

Edited to include Jiraiya's description. Too much?
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Re: The Blond Haired Ninja has a Syndrome

Unread postby Psalm Of Fire » April 14th, 2011, 5:31 pm

Sorry about the slow reply, Emmy; Carpel Tunnel. I really like those descriptions, good practice! :yuush:

(And yes, good on you for avoiding the "mirror".)
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Re: The Blond Haired Ninja has a Syndrome

Unread postby TraceReading » May 25th, 2011, 1:17 pm

Personally I find that people should already know what Naruto looks like and the only reason to spend time describing him (or her as some stories require) is when he DIFFERS from the norm, or has a disguise on or something.
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Re: The Blond Haired Ninja has a Syndrome

Unread postby Psalm Of Fire » May 25th, 2011, 4:29 pm

Well said, I agree.

With one exception: when in the perspective of a character who hasn't met Naruto yet. The author can take that chance to let us see him with fresh eyes. You know what I mean?
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Re: The Blond Haired Ninja has a Syndrome

Unread postby emmy_k » June 4th, 2011, 1:21 pm

Personally I find that people should already know what Naruto looks like and the only reason to spend time describing him (or her as some stories require) is when he DIFFERS from the norm, or has a disguise on or something.
I'm largely in agreement - in so far as one doesn't need to go into exhaustive detail about his looks in the intro or generally each time he's talk about.

However, I do think little reminders are reasonable, in the way one is reminded of the way other people look in life, or how anime sometimes does it. In a particularly emotional scene - someone is capturing him for a last look, or something unique to him - his hair or eyes (anime does this with a long shot, or a close-up of the face). For another, maybe I'd want to describe his outer appearance, if it conflicts with his inner state (his adult self vs his little boy self).

There are some others, but those are the ones that come to mind immediately.

Oh, and if you've got him in a facial expression and you want to bring attention to that. ("His eyebrows furrowed over his troubled blue eyes.") Or am I heading towards purple-prose land?

(edited for additional comment)
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