Magical Girl Pilot Nanoha

[jgkitarel]

Populated areas near rift zones were evacuated once the rift zones were discovered. Those that were still populated.


The control system designs would have quickly gone more along the line of the Jaegers from PacRim for the sake of ease to use. It should be kept in mind though, that a Gertie's core, which has worked with a pilot for a long time and that magic is involved, that the internal layout of a specific cockpit may be different that what was originally designed. That doesn't even go into what changes the core makes to the actual Gertie.

[jgkitarel]

A little blurb on relations between the MSO and conventional military forces.

Spoiler: show

Despite the role of the MSO as an anti-Kaiju force, much of the combat against Kaiju are spearheaded by conventional military forces and a worldwide average of one in five Kaiju killed are credited to those military forces. These contributions are readily acknowledged by the MSO, as these forces are often the first on site when a Kaiju incursion happens. This has led to what is considered a spirited, if normally friendly, rivalry between the MSO and conventional forces.

[Wraith5]

Hmm... following that line, we could have Metal Gear-esque vehicles taking the place of some less maneuverable ground vehicles.

[Phht]

Hmm... following that line, we could have Metal Gear-esque vehicles taking the place of some less maneuverable ground vehicles.

Not sure there's much that's less maneuverable than a MG-esque mecha.

I'm torn on this, but leaning towards no. On one hand, all the R&D work has pretty much been done already, so doing something like that wouldn't be a massive R&D sink. On the other hand, the Metal Gear concepts aren't exactly that mobile (unless R&D pushes that design concept further to fix the issues instead of the RIDE design direction). But then again, if you set it up like an MRLS, its lack of mobility wouldn't be an issue because it'll have a lot of distance on the target. Also, is there a conventional power system capable of powering the whole thing that can replace the Gertie/power system pair?

More importantly, if conventional forces had them, then the militaries that have them would only be the ones that can afford to build them. It could catastrophically upset the balance of power between countries internationally and a war hawk government with access to conventional designs might get expansionist. The MSO gets away with what amounts to giant walking WMDs because they're an UN-chartered organization that's effectively Earth's sword and shield against external threats (as opposed to internal, Earth-native human threats). Though it could be conceivable that there's a multinational UN coalition of military units attached to the MSO, so they'd be "UN forces" instead of "<insert country name> forces", and those could be geared with conventional mecha designs. But that feasibility would largely depend on if anyone cares enough to bother R&D'ing a conventional power system that can successfully handle the needs it'd face.

[jgkitarel]

To be honest, they would probably just stick with existing designs for conventional forces equipment and modify/improve them to meet the needs. Also, Kaiju aren't invincible and we have some rather nasty incendiary compounds. I imagine that a Kaiju getting bombarded with modified incendiary rounds from tanks and artillery pieces may decide to go elsewhere. Especially if they develop rounds that use chlorine-triflouride as an oxidizer.

Conventional forces would be there to support the GDs, or engage the Kaiju and draw it's attention before it wrecks a nearby city.

[Wraith5]

Hmm... that's true I guess. I'll be perfectly honest, I've never seen Pacific Rim.

[jgkitarel]

It's a good movie, even if the rapid development of the Jaegers stretched my suspension of disbelief a bit. This is more from my own experiences with the testing and fielding side of the R&D cycle. These things take a lot longer, normally, than how fast the systems got that advanced in the movie. Of course, they had a major incentive to do so.

If the conventional forces supporting the MSO are considerably better equipped than national military forces, it would be because they are operating under a UN Charter, making them a UN Military force.

It should also be noted that there are a lot more GDs than there were Jaegers in Pacific Rim, largely due to the fact that the actual costs were a mere fraction of what the Jaegers would have been. Both the MSO and UN actually thought of such a concept, as had several other nations which did not want to be reliant on the MSO. However, the cost of even building one were prohibitive, with an expected US$30-50 billion price tag for each one once they entered production (if they wanted one that could keep pace with a Gertie), not counting the estimated R&D cost which exceeded the total US Military budget made them shelve the idea.

[Phht]

If the conventional forces supporting the MSO are considerably better equipped than national military forces, it would be because they are operating under a UN Charter, making them a UN Military force.

My biggest issue with a conventional design is the powerplant. A DRIVE unit makes use of mana to generate large amounts of power. So a conventional version would need a new powerplant to power the whole design. I mean, sure, you could pull the Gertie out and leave the mana-powered powerplant in place, but why would you?

And to be fair to the Jaeger program, it took them 14 months to roll out the first Mark Is. And they largely forgot a number of safety features in the designs in order to do so. I find some amusing irony in one of those missed safety features given that Cherno Alpha did not suffer from that particular missed feature (unlike Cold War Russian nuclear submarines were rumored to have issues with...).

--

Incidentally, magic user totals world-wide. I don't think I can get away with 1/10,000 of the population (or 800k out of 8 billion population) with F-rank or higher natural power like I have in the XCOM/Nanoha idea (though to be fair, high natural power is much more prevalent on that Earth than the TSAB averages would show). But I'd like to think it's still no more than 10% of the population. Maybe closer to 5% of the population max.

While a B/B+ rank is probably minimum for being combat effective vs kaiju, C-rank might be piloting effective, and thus you can use C-rank pilots for transferring rides or as general test pilots. Maybe medics/doctors of some sort? Though that would probably not be a fun field to be pioneering in. And before I forget again, I'm thinking "Paragon" or "Paladin" as possible name for the Support/Defense "Devil" equiv. Leaning towards Paragon. Though we could always make it Paladin and stick Paragon as a theoretical "class" above Devil/Paladin.

I estimate somewhere in the range of 200 Units worldwide. Maybe as many as 400-500.

--

Surveillance

Spoiler: show

A lot has changed in the realm of kaiju surveillance. Early on, it was largely based on receiving reports from vessels/aircraft regarding possible kaiju and then dispatching ASW craft to try to pick up the kaiju on the estimated approach path via sonar if they're at sea, or just dispatching aircraft to try to spot it if on land.

Sea
SOSUS and related systems were used to varying degrees of success to locate and track kaiju at sea. Visual imaging of sonar or radar returns helped separate kaiju from other wildlife like whales. Acoustic tracking of kaiju was difficult due to lack of solid data on what they'd sound like. By 0065 an acoustic profile of kaiju was developed. It wasn't a perfect match for all kaiju, but it reduced false positives to near zero and included all the acoustic bits that were shared between all kaiju data was present for.

Satellite
As the kaiju fighting progressed, the MSO also began working on magic detecting sensors. Not all kaiju were "magic" based, but they all had base levels higher than many humans and thus in many areas could be tentatively IDed for closer inspection. Around 0065 the first satellites with these sensors went up over hot spot regions. Further improvements of the satellite designs over the years increased the sensitivity and "zoom" of the sensors, as well as allowing them to extend working range deeper into the oceans. By 0073, the first "High Definition" satellites with modular sensor packages were placed over known Rift zones. Phased replacement of the older satellites was expected to conclude by 0076, and the modular nature meant the satellites could be upgraded in place instead of being entirely replaced.

Aerial
The "longest" employed method of surveillance on kaiju is by far the simplest. Send aircraft out to spot the kaiju, then keep an eye on it so forces can move to intercept. Early forms were long-range ASW style aircraft that were designed to stay in the air at sea for many hours scouring the surface for hostiles. As magic sensors developed, former cargo planes like C-130s were adapted to take over the spotting and tracking role far out to sea. Early forms of the sensors were mounted on C-130s and circled around near kaiju battles to record data starting in 0058. By 0065, the large recon airplanes were being phased out, as the sensors had been shrunk enough that UAV drones were being equipped with them and deployed near and on land to get visual confirmation of a kaiju and an accurate power reading of it.

With the introduction of UAV recon units and sufficiently improved orbital sensors, the need for long range spotting and tracking was largely unneeded. The satellites would pick up the kaiju at sea and keep an eye on its progress, and a UAV would be dispatched to the area to begin tracking and provide a more accurate power reading than the orbital sensors can. The readings would then be used to determine Unit deployment against the kaiju. Drones would not be deployed if no intent to intercept was present.

--

In 0067, the four recon drones for Japan North had been deployed to deal with existing battles going on in Japan North and Japan Central. Japan Central only had one drone available, and it was deployed in support of Unit Takamachi. As a result, the only data on the lone kaiju approaching northern Hokkaido was the vague orbital readings and the first realization of its MS Killer strength was on Unit Pluto's arrival. Following the incident, policy was changed to prevent Unit deployment if recon coverage could not be provided for the fight, and at least two spare drones were required kept ready for use in the event that all normal drones were in use and more were needed.

In 0069, drones were deployed to White Devil's location after its unauthorized launch and teleport near Uminari City.

In 0070, the mothballed aerial assets were brought out of retirement to support MSO operations in the Mediterranean during that major incursion, as the widespread activity taxed the limits of the drone inventory, and some drones were actually knocked out by kaiju.

Virtual Cockpit Pod

Spoiler: show

Generation 0: Basically a modern fighter cockpit with modifications to account for neural control systems replacing some aspects. Briefly used in 0055 before discovery of sync effect and request for easier to use cockpit design.
Generation 0.5: Cockpit enlarged. Control panels reduced to three groupings. Leg motion controlled with foot pedals, arm/hand motions controlled by joysticks. Neural control assists in the movement control. Larger view screens with wider available view area. Present on first combat prototype in 0055, and on Gen1 rides built in 0056-0057. (Visually...something in like with later variable fighter battloid mode cockpits or mobile suit cockpits.)
Generation 1: Control panel reduced to one grouping placed left/right of pilot based on preference. Cockpit seat removed in favor of standing pilot. Arm/hand motion controls linked to pilot arms, leg controls linked to feet w/ neural controls. Gen 1 rides in 0056-0057 lacked the Gen1 VCP, but were refitted with it in 0058. (Visually, thinking of a single-pilot version of Gipsy Danger or Striker Eureka.)
Generation 2: Control panel replaced with holographic HUD design. Arm/leg motion controls largely gone in favor of full neural controls of movement. Tested in 0060-0061 and come standard on all rides built 0062-0067. (Holographic HUD based somewhat on the HUD design for Cherno Alpha.)
Generation 3: Arm/Leg physical controls removed. Magic influenced gravity control system installed to keep pilot in the center of the VCP when synced. Gyroscope-system installed to keep VCP pointed "forward" when pilot turns around. Testing begun in 0066-0067, was installed in Unit Takamachi at time of the Pluto Incident. Standard on all rides built 0068-. (Visually more in line with a G Gundam cockpit at this point.)

[jgkitarel]

Actually works good as an estimate to me. We can make it even more interesting by putting in that there is an authorization for more, but for various reasons (some political, some real) they never have enough pilots of GDs to go around.

MSO Personnel Issues

Spoiler: show

The MSO had been plagued with personnel issues from the very beginning. Much of this is in relation to pilots, which they have an authorization for 750, but by 0075 had not exceeded 350 active pilots. The reasons for this have been varied, but the primary ones are thus:

Political Considerations - Many of the member nations of the UN have been wary of the MSO to start, even those which had been it's primary supporters. Much of the reason for this is the understandable caution that comes with dealing with a power that is beholden to no nation, despite it's subordination to the United Nations Security Council, and is essentially an arsenal of Weapons of Mass Destruction in its own right. These political considerations also affect the budget available to the MSO, which while never below a certain amount (US$200 billion), is often little higher.

Pilot Training: MSO Pilot training is extremely difficult and has a high failure rate. In fact, the training is designed from the start to fail as many candidates as possible and gets harder from there. There are also the required psychological evaluations, physicals, medical screenings, more evaluations and the physical demands that are placed on pilots. Most candidates tend to wash out within the first month and most of the remainder are screened out through other means during the training cycle. The extremely high standards in training are deliberate, the psychological profiling is because they are looking for specific kinds of people and there are rumors that throughout the training, all pilot candidates are under some kind of psychic attack, mental strain and tend to be exposed to abject humiliation.

Later investigations would demonstrate that those rumors were not only true, but were understated.

Attrition: Being a pilot within the MSO has a high casualty rate within the first year after being qualified. While the fatalities have dropped, a GD Pilot is subject to a high likelihood of crippling injury in any engagement. If a pilot gets severely injured and can not recover back to the point where they meet the physical standards for a pilot, they are pulled from the pilot program and are offered other jobs within the MSO or can accept a pension for service.

[Wraith5]

Hmm... in order to deal with the high first mission mortality rate, couldn't they (theoretically) do a remote piloted mech? Either that or, depending on how high of a power level a kaiju has, they could send them out with an experienced MS very close by for immediate support. I would suggest something like Operation Red Flag (which is designed to give USAF pilots their first five missions to help avoid the higher casualty rates for those), but that kind of thing really does not apply to kaiju very well... and depending on how well the magical anti-gravity thing works, they could even go to simulate the effects of motion in a stationary cockpit (stationary relative to the ground, not the mech)

[jgkitarel]

You're confusing casualty rates with mortality rates, Wraith. Most casualties, nowadays at least, survive. Earlier in the war, that was not necessarily the case.

They don't send in pilots until they're trained enough to be ready. Also, mortality rates have declined over the years as new Tactics Techniques and Procedures (TTPs) for handling Kaiju come about and improve. Most are benched less from death than from injury and deciding to take a less dangerous job. MS Killer Kaiju, while highly dangerous to even a team of MS Pilots are usually handled by the more elite teams for a reason.

Unlike earlier (First Generation - Early Second Generation) the MSO now has a dedicated and standardized training program, so they can weed out the less capable early. The first few missions are still the riskiest a pilot generally takes, but that is more that they haven't gained the experience. They are also backed up by at least one or two veteran pilots. That doesn't mean that casualty rates are low, it is expected that at least 30% of new pilots will become casualties within their first year, but they have reduced the fatalities down on Rookie Runs considerably.

The MSO tries to avoid sending rookies against the more dangerous Kaiju, giving them time to get experienced on dealing with Grunt class Kaiju first.

Spoiler: show

As for your Red Force idea, keep in mind that the USAF had to completely modify it about a decade or so ago when they actually went up against Russian designed aircraft being used by the Indian Air Force in a training exercise and got completely humiliated. As in, they lost 90% of the engagements until they realized that they were dealing with pilots who knew exactly what their airframes were capable of, not just what the technical specs and observational details were.

Didn't hurt that the Indians also followed their own doctrine and not Russian doctrine, which played a significant role. Future exercises turned out differently once the USAF modified their Red Force engagement parameters.

[Wraith5]

I'll be honest, I don't really know much about operational procedures, etc. Even though my parents are both retired Air Force, my mom is an Aeronautical Engineer (who has worked on both the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet and the F-35 Lightning II) and my dad is an Electrical Engineer. (I do have an uncle who piloted F-14 Tomcats (for the Navy, of course) though!) And my knowledge of Operation Red Flag is limited to what I remember from seeing the movie Fighter Pilot: Operation Red Flag about 8 or 9 years ago. (I'll be honest, I was mostly geeking out over watching the A-10 Warthogs, etc. LOL. Most of what I remember is A-10 strafing runs, morning runway checks (for pebbles and other debris), and the fact that a pilot's first five missions have a MUCH higher casualty rate than the rest, so they do Red Flag to do five missions where there is a much, much lower level of actual risk.)
Intellectually, I do know that casualty =/= mortality rate. But in conversation, etc., I don't always remember that. And there are also casualties that mean an individual is not fit for active duty, such as a loss of limb or even extreme mental trauma.

I will freely admit, I'm a geek. Always have been, always will be. (Honestly, I liked the F-22 better than the F-35, but I never really knew what the F-35 could do back then. XD)

[jgkitarel]

The training program is actually valid and worked, even before the overhaul. The reason it got changed was because the USAF made the classic mistake of complacency in training and had to eat massive crow.

The idea as a training concept for the MSO is actually pretty good and would work as a good way to get rookie pilots familiarized and knowing just what their rides can do. It still doesn't replace actual real combat experience, but it would make their training more effective.

[jgkitarel]

With my inclusion of the Harry Potterverse into this, I realized that with all the other aspects we've thrown in that one plot device might be either far more regulated, or not longer existant. That being the Time Turner which played the McGuffin role in Prisoner of Azkaban.

So, a little contribution, if slightly unnecessary here.

On Time Magic:

Spoiler: show

The MSO flirted with the idea of using Time Magic and manipulating time to eliminate the Kaiju threat. However, Sailor Pluto bluntly disabused them of the notion by telling them, at length the dangerous nature and unpredictable consequences of using Time Magic.

As Sailor Pluto explained to the MSO's top brass and world leaders at a major summit in 0059:

My abilities require me to be thoroughly familiar with this branch of magic, if only because I am tied to an artifact which gives me some ability to view the Time Stream. Viewing the Time Stream can provide a great deal of information on potential future events. However, it doesn't show you every possibility and I am of the belief, now, that such viewing tends to be along the lines of what you want to see in the first place, rather than what you should see. All of my viewings before the first Kaiju appeared never even hinted at their coming, even as the remotest possibility. Thus, viewing the Time Stream is of limited utility at best.

Manipulating it, on the other hand, is extremely dangerous, even for the smallest use. If you think I had not been tempted to try and do so in the past, even before the Kaiju, I had been tempted to do so. It was only the fact that my being tied to the artifact, The Gates of Time, that I had not tried. The consequences for the even the most benign and minor use can range from the relatively harmless, to cases where the user is wiped out of existence and everything they did, even the act of manipulating time to prevent something, never happened as best case scenarios.

For more serious endeavors, such as preventing a world changing event, you run the very likely risk, as in near guaranteed risk, to creating a stable time loop which doesn't help us; wiping out all life on the planet, or destroying reality as we know it. Only the most desperate would risk that and our situation, while bad, does not even approach to being that desperate. For all that is happening, we have options available and are managing to keep the Kaiju threat from coming close to wiping out humanity.

The previous guardians of the Gates of Time had a geas on them to prevent them from doing so, a geas that I myself am under, for good reason.

Basically, things like Time Turners (relatively harmless in most cases, but still dangerous) become highly proscribed items in which possessing and using one without very specific authorization (The Unspeakables have one) becomes a felony offense. Authorization is also very carefully worded to prevent loophole abuse

Spoiler: show

Violating the terms worded in the authorization has punishments which range from life imprisonment after having your magic forcibly removed, to having your brain removed and stored in a field which forces sensory deprivation with a touch of forced pseudo-immortality (called Brain Canning by those in the know) for an indeterminate period of time.

These punishments can not be appealed.

[Phht]

So I decided that Hayate ought to be her canon age when BoD occurs, which makes her 12 in 0069. This probably has zero effect on anything involving her written thus far, as she'd be 15 in 0072. I think she won't become an actual Pilot until some time in 0073 since she had to do all the physical rehab, etc to walk again that took up time, then pilot training. Given she was somewhat mentored by Fate/Nanoha over that time and had the Wolkenritter as guardians (Shamal is not a Pilot, but ends up in Medical), the Wolkenritter served as her instructors instead of the usual training courses.

I'm actually kinda seeing a second plot arc here. First one would be 0067/0068-0069 revolving around Nanoha and Fate, and ending with the BoD fight. The second arc would start 0073, end 0075ish, and revolve more around Hayate and the Wolkenritter. For Hayate, kinda the realities of being a pilot vs the 'fanon' she's grown up with. For the Wolkenritter pilots, dealing with the issue of being her superiors while still considering her their master.

Spoiler: show

An incursion against Japan occurs in 0073 (causing Fate/Nanoha to abort their demonstration/joint-training tour in order to come back to help). Hayate's Rookie Run comes at the tail end of the brief incursion when a group of 25 kaiju move in toward a city and the Wolkenritter are deployed against them. Seven split and head for another city, so Hayate tells the others to go stop the seven and she'll handle this group. They end up leaving as she says. She Unisons with Reinforce (Eins, since there was no need to destroy/seal her), then goes Mode Set. Pops 8 cartridges and one shots the 18 kaiju using the aria "Resound, horn of the end!". The blast fries all magic sensors in 50km radius of her (and causes two drones to crash as a result).

End result: Signum, Vita, and Zafira get 2 weeks suspension with no pay and instructor certification revoked indefinitely (which is probably a pretty bad black mark on their record). Hayate gets suspending one week no pay and had her Pilot status revoked (probably a bigger black mark than the other). Shamal has Hayate occupied in medical while Nanoha informs the trio. Vita tries to argue with Nanoha over the punishments while Nanoha's chewing them out, and the trio ends up getting a month suspension. Hayate and Shamal enter as Nanoha cuts off Vita from protesting that with a threat to make it indefinite. As Nanoha leaves (slipping in a "Signum can act like a team leader for once and explain things" shot while she's at it), she stops and let's the group know that their fuck up cost Hayate a chance at a moniker then leaves. Hayate ignores Shamal's advice to let things be until tempers cool, and confronts Nanoha about the punishments at Fate's place a day or two later. She ends up getting her suspension extended to a month as well and nearly gets the Wolkenritter trio transferred to the other side of the planet.

Nanoha's anger is not so much over Hayate utterly overpowering the attack (Ragnarok is S-rank in canon. Through a ride with Mode Set and 8 cartridges... I figure it's a genuine low SSS-rank move) where she could've taken out non-combatants like civilian ships or planes or military craft before the blat ended, or aimed a few degrees down more and possible drilled a hole into the sea floor, but over the trio leaving Hayate alone. Partially because she was a rookie and needed some supervision, partially because it was a blatant violation of policies, and partially because if she missed killing any of the kaiju, she would've been killed by them before anyone could respond to assist. Yeah, Nanoha still has some issues from the Pluto Incident.

Hayate ends up getting sent to go through the regular training courses after she comes off suspension. After she graduates from there, she gets assigned a mentor in a location other than Japan. It's probably during this time frame that she puts together the TSAB/MSO joint operations concept (possibly as a thought exercise from her mentor? ... Or a mentor's friend, if she's stuck with Potter as mentor ). When Special Duty Section 6 forms in Germany, the Wolkenritter trio transfer there. Hayate ends up joining the Mid-Childa counterpart, Riot Force 6, where she meets Nanoha for the first time since 0073. Then follow along as they proceed through events involving Scaglietti. RF6 escorts Vivio to Earth via Garden of Time (first official use of Fate's "private property" for MSO business).

Major incursion occurs from the Dragon's Triangle and less so out of the Arctic rift zone. During the fighting, Hayate ends up being put in charge of the Wolkenritter, where she remains the rest of the incursion. During the chaos of dealing with the incursion, Numbers infiltrate and recover Vivio, returning her to Mid-Childa. Saint's Cradle activates and Mid-Childa ends up capitulating. The ship from the BoD incident arrives in system in time to hear what happened, and rushes to Earth to report what happened. Saint's Cradle follows, and Scaglietti and the Numbers discover that the anti-magic field is not really up to stopping overpowered Starlight Breakers, Blast Calamities, or a SSS-rank Ragnarok.

Saint's Cradle makes a (barely) controlled landing on Attu Island. The surviving Numbers and Scaglietti refuse to surrender, so SDS6/RF6 probe the wreck a bit before Nanoha decides on a faster way to get them out. Nanoha requests their surrender, and has Hayate SSS Ragnarok the wreck a few minutes after they refuse (Nanoha called it a warning shot across the bow, Hayate points out "It cleaved the front third off!", Nanoha states "It went from port to starboard in the bow section. That's technically 'across' the bow.") and repeats the surrender request with the threat of having the next warning shot go the length of the ship. Wisely, the survivors surrender this time.

And that'd probably be an arc.

--

Ahaha. You know, I sorta considered how the kaiju mess impacted the future of the SM canon. There's the obvious, such as CT probably not existing and thus no Black Moon Family to come back. Of course when it comes to time travel shenanigans a la Black Moon Family, it could still occur in an altered state. Maybe rogue TSAB mages and other people travel back in time in the hopes of stopping Vivio from eventually forming the Neo Belkan Empire with Earth as its capital and absorbing TSAB into it?

And this could lead to some definite screwing with Pluto.

Spoiler: show

"What if someone put a time turner onto the freighter in 0065 and its destruction caused all the time messes?"

Pluto sighed. "Nanoha, there's absolutely no way a time turner could end up on the freighter to start the whole series of events. Time Magic--"

"You'd like to think that."

"Like, no. Actually know, ye-- Wait. You didn't say that, did you?"

Nanoha blinked and looked past Pluto. "I kinda think I did?"

Pluto turned and saw a clearly older Nanoha, Fate, and Hayate. Future Nanoha smirked and spoke up. "Yes, a time turner was sent back onto the freighter and caused the sequence of events. Since we can't use our regular names without confusion, call me Conquest."

Future Fate waved, clearly having been blessed by the puberty fairy. "I'll be Famine."

A muttered "I'd love partake in that famine" from behind Pluto was ignored as the future Hayate finished introductions. "I don't think I need to say who I am. Chibi-me can just be Hayate for now."

Pluto simply glared at them. "In that case, where's War?"

"Oh, they're keeping the door open. Forgetting to do that leads to quantum leaps for a bit, making you feel like a Time Lord. In case you were wondering, whoever dubbed us Horsemen of the Apocalypse apparently wasn't so much 'haha funny joke' as 'touched by destiny' or something. And wouldn't you agree that screwing with Time and Space is an apocalyptic thing to do, yes? Thus is right in our hands."

Pluto settled for just growling at them and gripping her staff instead of Conquest's throat.

Four Horsemen: Conquest, riding a white horse; War, riding a red horse; Famine, riding a black horse; and Death, riding a pale horse. White Devil, Black Angel. Easy match ups there. Hayate is clearly Death (what other moniker suits someone that killed 18 kaiju in under 30 seconds?). War with its red horse could point to the Red Devil.

But the gist of the time travel reveal would be that someone in the future sent the time turner back, causing the rewrite from MGLN to MGPN. And thus, at some point post-0076 a time turner has to be sent back to the freighter to ensure the loop. I say post-0076, because that's when they discover a time turner was on the freighter, leading the investigation to eventually determining one has to be sent back in order to avoid paradox. Whether or not the visit from the future pilots sparks the investigation that results in said discovery.... As to who originally sent it back to start the loop? Maybe it was the Horsemen ("The Horsemen didn't exist yet!" "Come now, Guardian of the Gates of Time and Space. You of all people should know that some things, once made exist, have always existed.").

Also, at some point the future!pilots would get to the point of their visit and ask for the time traveling idiot criminals to be handed over so the idiots can return to their time and stand trial for various things including use of Time Magic. After all, screwing around with Time Magic is quite illegal, don'tcha know?

[Wraith5]

"I said 'fire a warning shot across her bow,' not UP it!"
As for the Horsemen thing... “She was beautiful, but she was beautiful in the way a forest fire was beautiful: something to be admired from a distance, not up close.” LMAO. Good Omens was hilarious...

[jgkitarel]

Harry as a mentor to Hayate? For some reason that leaves me laughing. Of course, he wouldn't think of a thought exercise like that. Hermione though...

Harry would be the one who tells her that the ass chewing that she received from Nanoha and the disciplinary measures, while necessary, were more for form's sake. No pilot worth a damn has not run afoul of command somehow and gotten reamed for it. Considering that he was the protégé of the Red Devil, he would know and even have been involved (or instigated, for that matter) in more than few memorable ones.

Spoiler: show

"Let's just say that the policy about holding a barbecue using a Kaiju as the source of the fire is prohibited for a reason, not that I know anything about that." - Harry to Nanoha in the aftermath of the BoD Incident.

He was less sympathetic about the Wolkenritter, though. They were told quite clearly that whatever their position in regards to her as her knights entailed, if they are higher than her in the chain of command in MSO matters, then they were in charge of her, not the other way around. She could suggest courses of action, which a good subordinate does and is encouraged to do. The Wolkenritter should have known better.

So thus, Hayate now has to go through the regular training program under a certified mentor, which Nanoha hasn't gotten around to becoming. Hayate gets the Red Devil treatment, modified to suit her gender and learns that Harry is probably as sadistic and prone to humiliating people in the name of training as his mentor was. Then, due to her relationship in regards to the Wolkenritter, she gets sent to Command School so that she can be in charge of them properly.

Some quotes during Hayate's training:

Spoiler: show

Harry:
"If you think this is bad, just wait until next week, Cadet Yagami."
"So, somehow you got run up the flagpole as the flag by your panties with a bunch of other cadets?" *Rubs the bridge of his nose* "I was wondering what that dark feeling I got was. The Red Devil's here and decided to welcome you all to the MSO Pilot Corps in her own way."

Hayate: "Sir, I am beginning to hate you and will think of a spell to take you out, powered only by my hate."
Harry: "Good, it means I'm doing my job."

Harry: "Cadet Yagami, I could always have you run around the entire training field naked if you like."
Hayate: "You wouldn't-"
Harry: *interrupting her* "I would do it, have done it, and my mentor made me do it. It's a time honored tradition."

Hayate: "..."
Harry: "My mentor decided to remind me of the old days and changed my clothing to this."
Hayate: "Sir, can I say she has poor taste?"
Harry: "You can."
Hayate: "Then sir, she has poor taste. There are too many frills and lace and that shade of blue just doesn't suit you. The stockings are nice and the shoes are cute, but still, poor taste overall."
Harry: "You're enjoying this, aren't you cadet?"
Hayate: *amused* "I don't know what you're talking about, sir."
Harry: "Then you won't mind wearing the matching outfit she provided for you, then. I think that the shade of pink it's all in will suit you nicely." *shows her the outfit*
Hayate: "That... that makes me taste the diabetes." *shudder*

All of them as the Four Horsemen.

Nanoha: Conquest/Plague
Fate: Famine
Hayate: Death
Victoria: War (If she's feeling mischievous, she'll send Harry, in a "nice and red" outfit, much to the amusement of the others)

Only reason I include Harry is for extra butt monkey points. He's a good pilot, very good to be precise, but Victoria loves pulling these things on him. He's learned to deal with it, and find ways to get even.

Spoiler: show

Harry: "Ma'am, I seem to remember an incident involving a keg of beer, whipped cream and-"
Victoria: "We promised never to talk about that!"
Harry: "You promised. The rest of us took pictures."
Victoria: You all, what?"
Harry: "We also made sure that Usagi had copies."

[Phht]

Harry: "We also made sure that Usagi had copies."

And now how Harry ended up as mentor to Hayate is made clear. Usagi probably has a massive stockpile of blackmail stuff that people pass copies of to her (after all, who is gonna push her regarding the stuff when she has nine people quite willing to push back). Thus Usagi either blackmailed Harry, or Nanoha (or Fate) got copies and used them to blackmail Harry.

Also, can't help but think that at some later point someone will splice together into a montage footage of Hayate training, and set the music to Gimme Some Lovin' (Spencer Davis Group, naturally).

--

I like to think that Time and various other forces work together to keep reality stable. So some rules apply.

Spoiler: show

1. Time hates foreknowledge. This is important. Say a group comes back to the past to try to avert something, get stopped, and get taken back to their time. Less than a year later, all the future knowledge gathered including data on the criminals is garbled/blurred/obscured/forgotten so it's basically reduced to general stuff like "group from the future came back to screw with time. They failed and were taken back to the future by a second group."
2. Time HATES foreknowledge. The reason Pluto missed seeing the possibility of the kaiju? Because an element that affects time magic and blinds the Gates was involved. Things like time turners are Time's way of fucking around with foreknowledge gained through means like the Gates. Not necessarily an item, it could be a person that kinda screws with probability and "luck."
3. Time hates change. So if someone comes to the past to try to change the future, everything goes wrong that can go wrong. Bad luck, terrible timing, etc. Basically reality is resisting the change. This is why trying to manipulate time is extremely dangerous and successfully starting time loops result in things like rewriting reality.
4. Time prefers a stable timeline and dislikes paradox. So if a timeline gets rewritten and fails to stabilize (thus reverting to the original version), Time will institute a failsafe during the next go round in the hopes of stabilizing it that time. If that fails, it takes action to prevent the rewrite from occurring in the first place.

That last point is involved regarding the idea of a time turner being responsible for the freighter time shenanigans. At some point in the future, someone sends the time turner to the freighter, starting the timeline rewrite and altering reality as they knew it (from MGLN to MGPN). If they fail to discover the time turner's involvement and stabilize the line by sending one back before the time turners "run out," then paradox occurs and reality gets rewritten back to the original state. And thus when the time rolls around and the time turner gets sent back again, Time introduces elements to hopefully allow them to figure out how to stabilize the line and thus avoid paradox. The manner might be someone from the future pointing it out (and then the foreknowledge issue clouds the specifics but gets people investigating time turners and the freighter together, resulting in the discovery in time for a time turner to be sent back), or other more subtle clues. If that attempt fails, time shifts elements in order to just prevent the line rewrite from starting in the first place (perhaps having the time turners get destroyed by a spell battle in the MoM long before they'd be used to start a loop).

... Of course, now I'm imagining a group becoming unstuck in time due to a magic ritual they crashed involving "fairy dust" (as Pluto refers to all the stuff that screws with the Gates). What really happened to Belka that caused it to be lost forever? ...Yeah, let's not look too closely there or else there might be stories of White Devils and Death walking the surface just before the planet died. The death of the last Saint King? Pssh, it was faked and Vivio's not actually a clone, just memory/form locked so she doesn't remember who she is and looks the "right" age for the JS Incident. But the group looks quite spiffy in their Ancient Belkan Knight Armor once they get back to their proper time and re-anchor.

EDIT: edited because I somehow mixed up time loops with stabilzing a time line. What was I thinking at the time? D:

[jgkitarel]

I go on the interpretation that reality is surprisingly resilient when it comes to paradox. (I hope I put it as both contradicting and confirming your post, Phht)

Spoiler: show

It can also be summed up as in the MGLN-verse, something happened to screw up time without destroying reality. They didn't notice anything, as the events screwed with in the past never happened. However, those events did happen and simply branched into a different timeline with no effect of the MGLN-verse. Any participants involved in that might believe that they changed events, but that is only from their perspective and only if they end up in the branching timeline.

Now, whether that causes a stable time loop or not can be up to debate, as the catalyst for creating that branch in time was something fucking with time. However, even a stable time loop is undesirable as eventually a random factor tends to start having consequences and people start realizing that they're in one. Before long (well, before long in the sense of infinite time) they will try and break the time loop.

The energy required for doing so would make accelerating a galactic cluster to the speed of light and crashing it into an equivalent mass of antimatter traveling at the same velocity in the other direction and both crashing into a and destroying a mass orders of magnitude greater than both combined seem like the energy stored in a single atom. The release of all that energy, or even a leakage the equivalent of one planck unit of that kind of scale would be cataclysmic. Even if it doesn't destroy all of reality, it will take a big chunk out of it, as in bigger than the entire observable universe chunk of it.*

*Pluto ran the calculations and realized that the smallest energy release would still destroy everything from the center point to about 150 billion light years in every direction, or more than nine times the volume of the observable universe if the distances involved spread in every direction. If that didn't destroy reality, it wouldn't matter to us anyway. (The observable universe is 46 billion light years in each direction from Earth)

I like the idea of Harry being a well renowned pilot, if not on the level of the Devil Class pilots, also being the target of a lot of humor and pranks, mostly by Victoria, but the others occasionally do so as well. First, he can take it. Second, he pranks them back with something just as humiliating. As for the humiliating pictures. They all have their own collections and give copies to Usagi. They also have pictures of Usagi, but there is an unspoken agreement not to use them against her without a damn good reason. Mostly because the veteran pilots are afraid of pissing her off. The rest of Team Senshi just simply ensures that they don't.

Spoiler: show

He's not the best of the Demon Class pilots in terms of raw skill (almost, but not quite), but I have a perception of him being one of the few of them who's beaten every one of the active Devil Class pilots at least once in a match. There may even be rumors that he may take Victoria's spot amongst the Devil Class when she retires.

One of Harry's more notable pranks on Nanoha was to get an orchestral version of UN Owen Was Her played whenever she was at any gathering of MS Pilots. Nanoha was not amused when she learned the meaning behind it and the character it is from.

[jgkitarel]

A little bit of being a geek here, but a little on Mid-Childa: the planet and a short history.

On Alternate Realities:

Spoiler: show

The advent of the Kaiju Wars was arguably the largest provider of evidence supporting the existence of alternate realities/dimesnions. Initial engagements of Kaiju which were later known to have come from the Pacific Rift, showed that the composition of the Kaiju were, to be blunt, flatly impossible to create in conditions known to exist within our universe. The Kaiju from the Arctic Rift, on the other hand, were tailored from the start to operate within the same reality. This was due to prior experience by the Dark Kingdom in our reality.

The initial Kaiju from the Pacific Rift, despite being dangerous were considerably less dangerous than later Kaiju from the Pacific Rift, let alone Kaiju from the Dark Kingdom or the ones created by the Jewel Seeds, as they lacked the specific adaptations needed to survive in a reality where the rules are subtly, but measurable different than the one in which they were created. It would take a decade before their creators were able to reliably create a Kaiju which could survive on it's own in our reality for a long enough time to accomplish their objectives.
- Excerpt from Kaiju Types and Origins by Dr. Ami Mizuno (MSO - CPT Ret.) and Dr. Yuuno Scrya

The theories that these Kaiju were from different dimensions would be supported not only by the discovery of the rifts and the rift zones, but by data provided by the Time Space Administration Bureau (TSAB), which had demonstrated knowledge of alternate realities that they had found. Known areas within what is termed Dimensional Space where it is possible to travel to alternate realities are closely monitored and heavily patrolled.

On Mid Childa:

NOTE: This all operates on the premise that the various worlds are, for the most part, within the same reality as Earth, something which is not explained in MGLN Canon.

Spoiler: show

Planet: Mid-Childa (Kepler-62)
Dimension Alignment: Same as Earth
Galaxy: Milky Way
Parent Star: Mid-Childa (Kepler-62)
Distance from Earth: 1200 ly
Type: Terrestrial-Terraformed
Radius: 1.61 R☉ (10257 km)
Local Year: 122.3 days
Calendar Year: MC Standard (roughly analogous to Earth's ± 10 days)
Axial Tilt: 11.05°
Number of Moons: 2
Mean Planetary Temperature: 29° Celsius
Water Coverage: 62.17%
Population: 2.86 billion

Mid-Childa is the name for both the parent star (Kepler-62) and the inhabited planet of the system. It was terraformed approximately 1000 years ago by the Belkan Empire to make it's climate more tolerable to humans. The original planet was considerably more arid than present with an atmosphere that was significantly thicker than what humans were adapted to, making it potentially toxic at sea level. The exact method of terraforming is unknown and is not within the TSAB's capability, largely due to the loss of resources that occurred due to the Saint King Unification Wars and subsequent societal collapse.

It was determined, however, that the cost of terraforming the planet was considerable and taxed the Belkan Empire's resources, due to the planet being on the lower end of what would be considered a feasible project (The original Mid-Childa had an ESI 0.83, any planet under an ESI of 0.88 would not be considered even remotely viable by the TSAB). The costs and investment in terraforming the planet nearly led to an economic collapse and would later be marked by a brief civil war.

For most of the remainder to the Belkan Empire, the planet's only real notable nature was the shallow barrier and magically sensitive nature of it in regards to the Dimensional Sea. This would attract researchers and the planet would become home to several well regarded, though not prominent, centers of learning. This lack of high profile value would serve it well during the Unification Wars and spared it from much of the devastation.

After the near destruction of Belka and it being rendered uninhabitable. Mid-Childa attempted to remain neutral during the subsequent centuries of conflict, while accepting refugees from all over the Belkan Empire.

After the wars ended, the original founders of the TSAB (Note: the High Council in StrikerS) proposed a means of ensuring the peace between the surviving factions by setting up a non-aligned organization that was tasked with several mandates. Mid-Childa was chosen to become the administrative center of this organization due to it managing to maintain neutrality during the war, only getting involved if it was threatened by any of the factions.

[Phht]

It's somewhat amusing that, as a fan of branching timelines, I actually feel that this would be a single timeline. Because a branching timeline would be the same up to a point where a single change splits it, right? Except the logical branch point here would be the freighter sabotage... going off one way is MGLN/BSSM/etc canon, going off another is MGPN. But, if things go off to create MGPN, there's a decade+ of changes prior to that point that occurs. Unless you want to say that the branch point diverts into the past instead of simply continuing forward at its point like would be expected.

--

Side note: Godzilla had a new trailer release today. May 2014.

Spoiler: show

I mention this because, well, I imply that the first kaiju is Godzilla. And after seeing that teaser trailer, I kinda wonder if I need to revise any statements I made about fighting that first kaiju.

[jgkitarel]

I'll admit, my own arguments there contradict themselves and don't account for everything. I invoke the use of Phebotium here.

The simple fact is, whether the effects on a branched timeline were from the incident on, or that the effects somehow managed to affect the past in order to make the branched timeline a reality is immaterial. It happened, things went horribly wrong, Earth is now dealing with Kaiju invasions from alternate dimensions, our own native nasties (brought out for our own inconvenience) and the fact that the entire thing was caused by an unintended consequence is already established.

I would prefer to avoid messing with the Time bit as much as possible, considering just how many complications it would add to the story.

[jgkitarel]

Phht, since they did fight Godzilla, you can imagine what the ringtone on most MSO Pilot cell phones would be. Also, at least once a year, some joker manages to change the warning klaxons or the call for pilots to sortie with it.

Ringtone:



Warning Klaxon, call to sortie:

Spoiler: show

Rei: Ok, which smartass did it this time?
Usagi: *shakes head* Every year.
Minako: Wasn't me this time.
Ami: This stopped being funny a long time ago.
Makoto: Yeah.
Harry: Wasn't me.
Nanoha: Nope.
Fate: What?
Victoria: Oh, it's that time of the year again?
...
...
Hayate:
Wolkenritter:

[Phht]

On the topic of simulators.... Generally, they'd be able to figure stuff out regarding it. But, well, magic. Trying to figure out how to make a simulator that deals with magic 'properly' and accurately simulates things has been a hurdle that hasn't been conclusively solved by 0069. The other issue is that it is rare for two kaiju to be (near) identical, thus doing simulators based on previous kaiju doesn't necessarily train vs future kaiju.

In Ride Simulator - this has an external system feeding data and sensor info to the cockpit of a ride. The ride has its locomotion and Gertie turned off. This allows the pilot to act as if they were actually piloting and performing the actions. Downside is that sometimes the pilot unconsciously overrides the deactivations, allowing the ride to start moving and/or readying an attack. As such, when this simulator type is used, the test site is away from the base and populated areas to reduce possible damage and injury.
In Cockpit Simulator - This simulator utilizes the cockpit of a ride, usually one not mounted in a ride. Systems are in place to hold magic flow and tell the simulator what level of power/sync/etc to imitate. This system is less draining magically than the IRS system because after the simulation is over, the pilot can reabsorb most of the magic spent. This system is not well liked by experienced pilots, as they're used to feeling more connected with the ride than imitation-sync provides.
Sparring - While not really a simulator, sparring between two pilots and/or rides allows for gaining experience fighting similarly sized opponents. There are usually some sort of magic attack restriction in place to reduce chance of pilot injury, serious ride damage, or damage to surroundings.

The cooperation between MSO and TSAB has seen some definite progress in this area, given the training mode options on most Intelligent Devices, and the first simulator design from that cooperation began entering limited service in 0075.

--

At first, I thought maybe I should change the first kaiju from Godzilla to Gamera or something, that way Godzilla didn't get killed. But I don't think I ever explicitly mentioned the first kaiju ever dying (the snippet with the pacrim prologue only says "halted the creature"), and thus I could always say that the first kaiju was never actually killed. If I did say something outside a snippet that it was, well, that can be retconned away. And since I like to think that Godzilla would be classed in the MS Killer range, that means that it could always pop up again at some point.

Given that Angel made to be a support/defense pilot moniker, does this mean that Fate needs a different moniker?

[Wraith5]

You could go with "Archangel" as a moniker. I'm kind of just thinking 'out loud' here, but, according to Roman Catholic belief, Michael the Archangel, while still an angel, led the other angels into battle (I think).

"...there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven."
Revelations 12:7-9

(Source: Michael (archangel) on Wikipedia)
I don't quite remember clearly, but I can't think of any other ranks (category?) of angel that is specifically mentioned to take part in combat. I'll be quite honest, it's been a LONG time since I read up on any of this. But "Guardian Angel" and "Archangel" could work well for support and offensive monikers, respectively.