Viridian Dreams Forum

S'more of a swan than a crane really.

I did the best I could! Why is it never enough for you? WHY, WHY DON'T YOU LOVE ME DADDY!?
...
I'm sorry what were we talking about?

Oooooooooookay then. It's a swan/crane hybrid. So we're both right.

Well, that's my day made anyway.

So, looking to update the tropes list with Sliding Scale of Idealism vs. Cynicism.

Where would you place different Quests on that scale?

VQ really is a mixed bag, on the one hand it's grimdark as all hell, and on the other there's Lucy. So a dark, horrible place on the verge of falling into oblivion, but with a small insignificant chance of salvation that at the moment could be snuffed out as if it never existed.

I meant more in comparison to each other, like: Q1 > Q2 > Q3 > Q4 > Q5.

But, considering VQ, I would actually put it pretty far on the idealism scale, mostly because of the protagonists' goals and fluffy elements.

Lucy has been obscenly lucky. Practically any other result would have ended with her optimism being crushed. Without her knowing Cain, by the time she learned of Ireland it would have been too late to do much of anything.

I agree with VQ being a mixed bag. The world, and the people are very cynical. Michael is probably the main NPC again after a stint with Cain and he is a deeply cynical man. However everyone there geuninely wants things to get better, they're just too jaded to ever see it happening. Lucy however sits at the other end of the spectrum and she draws everyone to her, because they want a better world and they see her as the chance for that and so protect her fiercely; because she is the only hope, the only spark of light they've ever seen. While the world itself sits way down the cynical end of the spectrum, 'hope' is very much a key theme of VQ.

It makes it oddly epic that way.

AQ is probably somewhere in the middle on the scale. Assassin Quest isn't meant to portray the assassins as good people, but rather just people with jobs that call upon them to let go of their humanity in order to perform them. The central characters are always in this constant flux of being these heartless, unfeeling trained killers and being themselves, a battle that wears on a lot of them as they deal with what they do, forcing some to just give into the unfeeling half just to remain sane.

At least, that's my opinion on the matter.

As for AQ, we don’t get to delve into the heartless parts that often, but we do get to see major unintended consequences of our actions, so it’s probably slightly closer to Cynical than Idealistic side of the scale.

FQ is unexpectedly high on the Cynical side of the scale. The protagonist gets to experience the flaws of the setting first-hand and there is little hope of her returning home. She has no one to really turn to and is ending up quite messed up. Help her!

My revised take on Sliding Scales:

By Setting: Idealistic > SQ > AQ > FQ > NQ > uq > VQ > Cynical

By Protagonist: Idealistic > Kade > Lucy > Leto > Mia > Felix > Ryoko > Cynical

Overall: Idealistic > SQ > uq > NQ > AQ > VQ > FQ > Cynical

I had an idea for a quest rolling around in my brain, but I wasn't sure how well I could set it up. Figure I'd share it here to see if I can get some more ideas, and some interest to get the ball rolling.

Basically, it'd be a Groundhog Day scenario, like the film or Chuunin Exam Day if you stretch it. The problem I'm having is how pull something like that off, and present the repetition realistically. Also, would anyone care? I need an overarching plot, with some kind of conclusion. Plus, with the subjective nature of Quest, I'm trying to think of a protagonist people would be interested in seeing stuck in a scenario like this.

What would you guys try to make out of quest like that?

It's a cool idea, but you have the problem of the looping becoming boring. In many groundhog day stories I've read, the power grinding or 'boring loops' are mostly glossed over or generalized and I'm not sure if that technique will lend itself well to the format of questing. You could make the Quest's conflicts have solutions that can't necessarily be solved by more DAKKA.

I don't think you have to worry about the protagonist considering how 'interesting' many of them end up before there are even five pages out.

You could have the Quest have a limited amount of loops or have a Groundhog Day Loop where injuries carry over and good/bad feelings carry over (in that if you pissed someone off in a loop, in the next loop they'll still be pissed off though they can't remember) like Day Break (tv show).

Groundhog Day plan
1. OMG am I stuck in a loop?
2. I am! I am stuck in a loop!
3. How do I get out? Attempts to get out.
4. Screw it, does crazy things
5. Despair
6. Break the look, hooray!

I think it could be really interesting, not sure how to run it but I'd play.

Or you could have Higurashi style loops, where they're AUs, all of them ending HORRIBLY, different ways but always horrible and with the loopers death until they finally find out why and survive the month they died in every other loop.

I like the Higurashi idea a lot, especially after having seen a few episodes of the show. If I did that though, I think I'd want a deceptive premise... Carebears infected with the Rokkenjima Syndrome? Hmm...

The manga is a million times better, get the manga.
Higurashi is a deceptive premise.
Hey! Look at our happy harem comedy isn't it OH MY GOD DID HE JUST CLAW OUT HIS OWN THROAT!?

Actually now that I think about it I did have a very vague plan for a Higurashi style quest (closer to Umineko no naku koro ni actually) back before I started NQ
Hmmm, think I've got some of it in a word doc. *searches, finds* Ok, really short word doc.
It went like this:
Rich Russian Family get snowed into a castle in West Germany shortly after WWII I believe it was.
Can only remember vaguely what my reasons for those times/places were.
This is all I have saved in the word doc (well done serbii)
"5 days to solve mystery and prevent death, your death ends that loop and you play as someone else
Different people have different skills, connections, access to different areas and will get different answers from people."

Basically each character is on a track and does the same thing every loop unless you change it. The PC changes with each loop, so the first you play the 20 year old guy, the second the little girl, the third the maid etc...
Every loop they all get killed. When the PC dies the next loop starts.
I very vaguely remember what the scenario was, but it was no where near complete.
Your aim is to not die.

The manga is a million times better, get the manga.
Higurashi is a deceptive premise.
Hey! Look at our happy harem comedy isn't it OH MY GOD DID HE JUST CLAW OUT HIS OWN THROAT!?

The manga's a lot more graphic I hear. But the lack of restrictions really lends it's self to the HORROR experience.

Actually now that I think about it I did have a very vague plan for a Higurashi style quest (closer to Umineko no naku koro ni actually) back before I started NQ
Hmmm, think I've got some of it in a word doc. *searches, finds* Ok, really short word doc.
It went like this:
Rich Russian Family get snowed into a castle in West Germany shortly after WWII I believe it was.
Can only remember vaguely what my reasons for those times/places were.
This is all I have saved in the word doc (well done serbii)
"5 days to solve mystery and prevent death, your death ends that loop and you play as someone else
Different people have different skills, connections, access to different areas and will get different answers from people."

Basically each character is on a track and does the same thing every loop unless you change it. The PC changes with each loop, so the first you play the 20 year old guy, the second the little girl, the third the maid etc...
Every loop they all get killed. When the PC dies the next loop starts.
I very vaguely remember what the scenario was, but it was no where near complete.
Your aim is to not die.

Knowing us, we'd end up throwing ourselves off something high.

I suspect that the greatest issue with that kind of Quest might be repetitiveness. Make sure each loop is meaningfully different than the last. I’d prepare for a low number of loops, perhaps an arbitrary limit. Perhaps something of the ‘Girl Who Leapt Through Time’ premise?

Or maybe once we get the basic idea of the loop, we could let each participant try ideas in his/her own loop. That way we can have a lot more loops in a rather short amount of time. Maybe do it partly via PM, so it's easier to focus on the individual loops, and post the end result at the end of each loop. That's only in the case of a fixed loop of course, and it will probably be hard on the person who actually runs the quest.

Or maybe once we get the basic idea of the loop, we could let each participant try ideas in his/her own loop. That way we can have a lot more loops in a rather short amount of time. Maybe do it partly via PM, so it's easier to focus on the individual loops, and post the end result at the end of each loop. That's only in the case of a fixed loop of course, and it will probably be hard on the person who actually runs the quest.

It would be time consuming, but that sounds like a lot of fun. If it was a set loop, that also doesn't necessarily mean there has to be any structure either in how each result loops are posted. Maybe you set a general tone for each loop. Like, maybe a loop was voted where the main character flat-out kills himself. The next loop the 'mood' would be morbid, so posters suggestion would have to reflect that in someway. I don't know, its a thought. I like these ideas though, thanks guys! :D

So I've been having to look back over at it for CQ. Anyone up for a Mage Quest reboot?

In addition or instead of uq?

I'm not dropping uq~ I looovee uq. It has a plot! It's going somewhere! You have no idea how awesome that is to me!


So in addition to.