Kingdom Hearts VD: Visions of Destiny

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Re: Kingdom Hearts VD: Visions of Destiny

Unread postby MrRigger2 » September 29th, 2013, 11:04 am

Whether it's natives or a new type of Heartless is kind of immaterial at the moment, in my opinion. They gave up the chance at diplomacy when they decided to turn us into pincushions. The current diplomatic discussion only has to do with where our blood is better left, in our body, or on the forest floor, and frankly, it's a discussion I'd like to win.

If they were Powhatan warriors who only wanted us to leave peacefully, they probably would have started with that, or at least a warning shot over our heads. Instead, our attackers led with a volley of arrows that took us down to half health and followed up with poisoned arrows. Powhatan or Heartless, they need to go down before they kill us.

Let's pop Heartdrive (Neku) and start countering them as best as we can. Return their arrows to sender, see if it's possible to pull any of our attackers out into the light, see if Kairi can hit them with any of her Magic. Goofy stays on the defensive, helping protect our backs, and providing potions if we get hit again.

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Re: Kingdom Hearts VD: Visions of Destiny

Unread postby Tempest Kitsune » September 29th, 2013, 12:58 pm

Agreeing with Gamebrain and Rigger. They started this fight with lethal intent, whoever or whatever they are. Attempting diplomacy at this point is a completely futile gesture that will only end in us getting skewered more. They made their beds, now they can lie in them, and if need be we have arrows that have poison on them to show the Chief as proof that we were acting in self defense.

Even so, at least make sure that Goofy and Kairi are aware of the possible incoming attacks from new angles.
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Re: Kingdom Hearts VD: Visions of Destiny

Unread postby Ristridin » September 29th, 2013, 1:18 pm

We lose nothing, except more HP.
Just because we're talking while defending ourselves?

Edit: Mind that I AM voting to use your plan, just also to use our Vision defensively, and to call out to the attackers.
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Re: Kingdom Hearts VD: Visions of Destiny

Unread postby MrRigger2 » September 29th, 2013, 1:38 pm

I don't really think we should use the Vision offensively or defensively, because I'm not sure of the Vision's veracity. We're already going to be changing things by activating Heartdrive, so the events of the Vision are already going to be changed, regardless of who is shooting at us. But the reason I'm doubting the Vision's truth is because it showed the native warriors firing at us. Chief Powhatan seems to command the respect of his people pretty effectively, we haven't seen anything that would suggest that his warriors would go against his orders and attack his guests. Nor do we have any reason to believe that the Chief would have changed his mind about us.

We've been asked for and freely offered our help in dealing with the Heartless. The Chief's not an idiot, and his warriors follow his lead. Warriors attacking us makes no sense, as far as I can tell. As best as I can tell, the Vision was lying to us, at least in part. We're already changing things, by using the Heartdrive, but if we explicitly use it Offensively or Defensively, and the Vision was a lie, we're going to have our Attack/Magic/Defense (whatever the appropriate stat is) cut in half. Right now, I don't think we can afford that in this situation.

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Re: Kingdom Hearts VD: Visions of Destiny

Unread postby JAGwin » September 29th, 2013, 1:47 pm

Okay, now I'm with Rigger. Definitely don't use that Vision.
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Re: Kingdom Hearts VD: Visions of Destiny

Unread postby Ristridin » September 29th, 2013, 2:25 pm

I don't really think we should use the Vision offensively or defensively, because I'm not sure of the Vision's veracity. We're already going to be changing things by activating Heartdrive, so the events of the Vision are already going to be changed, regardless of who is shooting at us. But the reason I'm doubting the Vision's truth is because it showed the native warriors firing at us. Chief Powhatan seems to command the respect of his people pretty effectively, we haven't seen anything that would suggest that his warriors would go against his orders and attack his guests. Nor do we have any reason to believe that the Chief would have changed his mind about us.

We've been asked for and freely offered our help in dealing with the Heartless. The Chief's not an idiot, and his warriors follow his lead. Warriors attacking us makes no sense, as far as I can tell. As best as I can tell, the Vision was lying to us, at least in part. We're already changing things, by using the Heartdrive, but if we explicitly use it Offensively or Defensively, and the Vision was a lie, we're going to have our Attack/Magic/Defense (whatever the appropriate stat is) cut in half. Right now, I don't think we can afford that in this situation.

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We do not know all natives, nor should we assume all natives know us. As far as I can tell, we have not seen the natives in the vision. And we should not assume that the natives are from the same village. For all we know, there's another village nearby. Just mentioning Powhatan's name does not hurt us.

If you don't want to act on the Vision, that's fine, but are you also opposed to calling out to them, even on an off chance they might cease their fire?

Edit: Also, if we call out to them, they can not even claim they 'did not recognize us from this distance' afterwards.
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Re: Kingdom Hearts VD: Visions of Destiny

Unread postby gamebrain89 » September 29th, 2013, 2:38 pm

With Rigger. I don't trust this particular vision. And we don't lose much if ignore it in this situation. If its wrong, we pretty much garantee we're gonna get tagged if we use it.

They're hitting us hard, we don't let them have any more free shots.
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Re: Kingdom Hearts VD: Visions of Destiny

Unread postby Ristridin » September 29th, 2013, 2:55 pm

If you really insist on not using a free action to try to call out to them while we do our thing, can we at least try non-lethal options should they turn out to be natives after all?
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Re: Kingdom Hearts VD: Visions of Destiny

Unread postby MrRigger2 » September 29th, 2013, 3:19 pm

They've poisoned us and shot us full of arrows. I'm not feeling particularly tolerant towards them, whoever they may be. Their actions so far tell me that this is a fight for our lives. Let's treat it that way.

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Re: Kingdom Hearts VD: Visions of Destiny

Unread postby gamebrain89 » September 29th, 2013, 3:20 pm

My thing Ris, is that peaceful negotiation pretty much loses any chance of happening when one side starts blatantly trying to kill the other. The natives are hunters. Hunters don't shoot at something they aren't sure of or don't want dead. That's the kind of thing that leads to hunting accidents, and wasted ammo. That mentality reflects in how they fight or do anything. and as accurate as they are being its pretty obvious they have a clear line of sight on us.
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Re: Kingdom Hearts VD: Visions of Destiny

Unread postby Vael » September 29th, 2013, 3:22 pm

Gonna go with the heartdrive suggestion, but I want to know something, could we use our telekinesis to bug out of there fast? Like, I don't know, lift a log, jump on it, and direct it out?
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Re: Kingdom Hearts VD: Visions of Destiny

Unread postby Bezzerker » September 29th, 2013, 3:31 pm

I agree with MrRigger, the Vision seems off.
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Re: Kingdom Hearts VD: Visions of Destiny

Unread postby Ristridin » September 29th, 2013, 3:54 pm

My thing Ris, is that peaceful negotiation pretty much loses any chance of happening when one side starts blatantly trying to kill the other. The natives are hunters. Hunters don't shoot at something they aren't sure of or don't want dead. That's the kind of thing that leads to hunting accidents, and wasted ammo. That mentality reflects in how they fight or do anything. and as accurate as they are being its pretty obvious they have a clear line of sight on us.
Ah, thank you for trying to explain. I wasn't really looking at that part of the equation, I was mostly thinking of reasons why they might be trying to kill us. After all, if they're human, they are unlikely to attack people for no reason. And indeed, they seem to be acting with some deliberation, since they are specifically not attacking Kairi (the sole female in this group, meaning a possible non-threat to them given the distribution of the roles of males and females in the villages), which is, together with the arrows from the village, reason for me to believe that they are human. The Vision is just an added bonus to that possibility.

From the point of assuming these people are natives, I start to think why they are attacking us. We know the natives don't seem to trust the White Men, which means that if they see people who are not from the village, they might attack them believing they are White Men (depending on how strained their relation actually is). If this is the case, a desperate yell of "We're not White Men, we're with chief Powhatan" might cause them to realize they made a mistake. I repeat that not all villagers (or natives in general) might have seen us, or even realized we are in the village if they were out on a long patrol, so not recognizing us on sight is an option (especially since it is fairly dark in here).

It's a lot of assumptions, I get that. But a chance at a peaceful resolution might be worth it, especially since there seem to be five attackers with fairly high attack rolls and the advantage of cover against the three of us. On a lighter note, we managed the unlikely negotiation with a sea gull, so if they're human, I feel that negotiating should not be an impossible task, right? :P
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Re: Kingdom Hearts VD: Visions of Destiny

Unread postby gamebrain89 » September 29th, 2013, 4:04 pm

It's a lot of assumptions, I get that. But a chance at a peaceful resolution might be worth it, especially since there seem to be five attackers with fairly high attack rolls and the advantage of cover against the three of us. On a lighter note, we managed the unlikely negotiation with a sea gull, so if they're human, I feel that negotiating should not be an impossible task, right? :P

Celsius wasn't trying to kill us, though. In either case, what we're about to do is going to be something pretty unusual, and vaguely spiritish. (Nakoma totally thought we might have been weather spirits or something there for a second) That sounds more likely to get them to stop shooting at us that trying to talk, if this is the natives, and they're willing to talk.
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Re: Kingdom Hearts VD: Visions of Destiny

Unread postby Ristridin » September 29th, 2013, 4:28 pm

Not trying to kill us yet... But you're right.

I will still say that talking might make us seem more human to them, which might make at least a few of them reluctant to fire. And we can talk while transforming. Maybe you would agree with something a bit more intimidating? "We're guests with chief Powhatan. I suggest you stop firing NOW." If we follow that with catching a few arrows in mid-air using Telekinesis, that might have even more impact.
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Re: Kingdom Hearts VD: Visions of Destiny

Unread postby Tempest Kitsune » September 29th, 2013, 5:56 pm

Alright folks, locking this thread up, we've hit the max.
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