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 Who's the 'agent in place'? *spoilers for latest chapters* 
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Joined: January 20th, 2011, 5:14 pm
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Unread post Re: Who's the 'agent in place'? *spoilers for latest chapters*
I agree with Trademarc about there being a possibility that the patron didn't know the details and would mearly have been concerned with the results, and there is also the minimal-risk/maximal-gain aspect of letting Draco help out. This would be even more possible if the AIP is an adult, in which case using Draco without telling Lucius the details could be a way of showing his contempt for the patron. The only real risk is if the AIP's motives could be construde in that mannor. And the HP universe is rife with individuals acting as toadying sphycophants that he might be able to BS his way out of any fallout. It might also be a reason that the AIP is acting so much bolder this school year. Proof of loyalty kind of thing.

Or maybe not, and we shall see what the dear author really has up his sleave in due time. *shrug*

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May 14th, 2008, 12:35 am
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Unread post Re: Who's the 'agent in place'? *spoilers for latest chapters*
Kal wrote:
The AIP could be our favorite little rat Pettigrew.


Doesn't the AIP's internal monologue include some pretty arrogant thoughts? I have difficult considering Pettigrew as some sort of arrogant mastermind.

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May 16th, 2008, 10:07 am
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Unread post Re: Who's the 'agent in place'? *spoilers for latest chapters*
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Doesn't the AIP's internal monologue include some pretty arrogant thoughts? I have difficult considering Pettigrew as some sort of arrogant mastermind.


OK. That's fair.

Personally, I don't have a problem with that in reguards to Pettigrew. I think that there is a strong dose of that in The Rat by the very nature of his position. Spies are required to have some of that arrogance to even think that they can get away with it, and at least some mastermind tendencies to get away with it for so long. He did not only spy on his friends, but kill 1(or 2, if you include Lily as a friend) and then proceed to frame a third without putting any suspician on himself. He then lives a (relative) life of freedom in the aftermath without anyone being the wiser. In this story, we are not told what happends beyond his "capture" but considering the Death Eater's stronghold over the Ministry, it is very unlikely that he has remained in any level of captivity. For all we (the readers) know he could have been released within the first 24 hours and is now in hidding. If that is the case, as the AIP, you could bet that he would be feeling quite superior to his opponents and his minions.

Perhaps it's nothing like that at all, but these were my thoughts while writting up the first post. I can't wait to find out! :lurk:


May 16th, 2008, 11:34 am
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Unread post Re: Who's the 'agent in place'? *spoilers for latest chapters*
all we have in canon for pettigrew was after he spent years as a rat, and the short scene after his owls.
and we all 'know' that around teachers, James and sirius, both big pranksters, behaved innocently. Why not extend this 'acting' towards Peter - where he just acts a certain way around the J/S/R trio because they're the 'powerful' group - 2 pure-bloods, one from a light and one from a dark, and the unknown Remus.

But no, I do not think the AIP is Pete.
I believe it to be a 4th or 5th year slytherin.


May 17th, 2008, 6:22 pm
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Unread post Re: Who's the 'agent in place'? *spoilers for latest chapters*
Trademarc wrote:
Actually had a rather fun discussion with a friend about just who the agent was. one of the most intreesting theories we had was that it could be Cedric Diggory. No we don't really believe that it is but the implications for the story if it were too much fun to consider to just drop right away.

My personal fave for who it could be would be Penelope Clearwater but she was negated by pronoun usage.

The AIP seems to me to be from the current time line (IMO mulitpule time travelers seems to convolute the story too much unless they managed to piggy back with Harry), Male (based on pronoun usage), probably a few years older definitely not younger, I think it is a student but could be staff at hogwarts, Is a Slytherin or Ravenclaw (seems to point more to Slytherin but that could be a bit of a mislead).
That was a lot of what I was going to observe, except that it's definitely a student -- or at least, I don't think our Authorlord would have referred to anyone on the faculty as "the boy." ("The letter hadn’t specified a timeframe, but the boy knew that sooner was preferable to later.") I don't see Pettigrew being either the agent or the patron. The patron, I think, is either Voldemort himself (if Pettigrew had already found him and brought him back to England -- unlikely given how soon after Pettigrew's capture we first see the agent) or, more likely, an elder Death Eater, one of the ones Riddle recruited while he was still at school. That suggests Nott -- Theodore Nott's father, that is, the only one of the original group of Death Eaters known canonically to be alive and free at this time. JKR has talked about a chapter that never made it into any of the books:
Quote:
Malfoy & Nott (Chamber of Secrets/Goblet of Fire)

I liked this scene so much I tried to use it twice; unfortunately, it didn't work in either place so I finally laid it to rest in one of the cardboard boxes where I keep all my old drafts, notes, electricity bills and chewing gum wrappers.

As in the case of Dean Thomas, I know much more about Theodore Nott than has ever appeared in the books. Raised by a very elderly widower and Death Eater father, Theodore is a clever loner who does not feel the need to join gangs, including Malfoy's.

However, in this scene Theodore's father (the same Nott who was badly injured in the closing chapters of 'Order of the Phoenix') goes to visit Lucius Malfoy to discuss Voldemort-related business and we see Draco and Theodore alone in the garden having a talk of their own. I really liked the scene, firstly because it showed the Malfoys' home, and the difference between the place where Draco has grown up and number four, Privet Drive; then because we rarely see Draco talking to anybody he considers a real equal, and he is forced to see Theodore as such, because Theodore is just as pure-blooded as he is, and somewhat cleverer. Together these two Death Eaters' sons discuss Dumbledore's regime at Hogwarts and Harry Potter, with all sorts of stories that the Death Eaters tell about how this baby boy survived the Dark Lord's attack.
I'm guessing the Authorlord is aware of this lost chapter, too. The fact that JKR first intended to use this chapter in CoS indicates that Nott might have been in on the diary plot, which the agent apparently tried to help along. The agent could be Theodore; if so, his thoughts about his "patron" and the costs of failure indicate a very unpleasant relationship with his father. Some fans have speculated that the death Theodore witnessed that enables him to see thestrals was his father murdering his mother; if he's the agent and his father the patron, I suspect that's true in this particular AU. His "unwitting ally" is probably Snape, and that passage probably referred to Snape's role in setting up the attack on Harry. The idea of the agent as a Ravenclaw over whom Nott (or whoever the patron is) has some kind of powerful hold is an interesting alternative, if Theodore turns out not to be the agent, but I still think he's more likely a Slytherin -- perhaps Bletchley, Montague, Pucey, or Warrington as suggested earlier.

This line of thinking would make Nott Sr. the real power behind the Death Eater conspiracies going on at the moment, with the Malfoys treated as expendable tools. That Theodore Nott is significant enough in this story to be the agent is borne out by one of Harry's future memories in Chapter 23: he was the last Death Eater standing at one of the last (if not the last) battles Harry fought, after Ron's death and only six months before he finished off Voldemort. Indeed, Nott may actually have been the very last Death Eater to fall, besides Voldemort himself. That he lasted so long after the arrival of the American forces, and was the last of thirty Death Eaters to fall to Harry in that fight, certainly suggests he was one of Voldemort's more capable servants.

I think the attack on Cho was meant to munge up the Quidditch schedule so that Ravenclaw-Hufflepuff -- the only match of the year in which neither Harry nor Draco participate -- would be delayed long enough for the agent to put the rest of the pieces in place. Timing the attack to take place during the match makes sense, as a match is one of the few events that virtually empties the castle during the school year, assuring that Draco and the agent would have a clear shot at Harry, and that Draco wouldn't have to talk to anyone and risk giving himself away while Polyjuiced into Harry. I think the agent probably attacked Harry and murdered Melissa himself, rather than risk using a cat's paw for those tasks -- too much chance of something going wrong, and if the cat's paw botched either attack it might be traced back to him. If he is a Slytherin, he might have "cleared" his wand by casting the last few spells he'd practiced in class over again before the Slytherins had their wands checked, or, better yet, he might have used an extra wand for the attack and then concealed or disposed of it. (Probably concealed -- if he has an extra wand just for illicit use, he probably used it to stun Cho and paralyze Harry, too, and he'll want it again the next time he needs to pull off a sneak attack. I wonder if he's keeping it in the Room of Lost Things?)

The neat thing about this whole subplot is that the agent might have been present in canon, watching and waiting, and Harry never became aware of him because the diary/Heir of Slytherin plot never needed his help, so he wasn't blamed for its failure, so he didn't try to make good that failure by arranging for the Slytherin team to attack Harry (also prompted by Malfoy's expulsion, which never happened in canon), then seek to avenge the betrayal of that plot by attacking Harry and murdering Melissa Bulstrode at the first Quidditch match in Year 3 (nobody needed to attack Harry there anyway, the Dementors did about as good a job as his enemies could have hoped for -- only Dumbledore saved him from falling to his death, after all). Under this theory, the agent in the original timeline would have simply served as Nott senior's, and then Voldemort's, eyes and ears at Hogwarts up until the Massacre. He might have been the one who uncovered Snape's duplicity, leading to that "shallow unmarked grave" and the outright destruction, rather than subversion, of the school (promoting Snape to Headmaster was a crucial part of that subversion, after all).


June 11th, 2008, 8:57 pm
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Unread post Re: Who's the 'agent in place'? *spoilers for latest chapters*
Is anyone else extraordinarily impressed by Mantis analysis of the situation and how it could work in this fanon as it relates to canon?

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June 12th, 2008, 1:43 am
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Unread post Re: Who's the 'agent in place'? *spoilers for latest chapters*
Yeah, that was pretty impressive. Extensive knowledge of both canon and NoFP + pretty deep insight= ridiculously impressive. Well done Mantis.

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June 12th, 2008, 2:09 am
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Unread post Re: Who's the 'agent in place'? *spoilers for latest chapters*
Wittgen wrote:
Yeah, that was pretty impressive. Extensive knowledge of both canon and NoFP + pretty deep insight= ridiculously impressive. Well done Mantis.
Thank you! I can't claim that my knowledge is all that extensive, but I do have above-average endowments of both working and long-term memory, and I just finished reading NoFP up through the latest chapter over the last week or so. As to canon, I'm a fan-fic writer myself (I found NoFP because it was the favorite story of a fellow who goes under the pseudonym Voice of the Nephilim, who'd very kindly reviewed all fourteen chapters of my own fic on FF.net), and though not in Viridian's league, I'm obsessive about canonicity; I can't count the hours I've spent on the HP Lexicon checking details for my own work. I've also spent quite a bit of time in the FictionAlley Park forums, often debating canon nitpicks, and again looking at the lexicon to support my arguments -- and all that stuff tends to stick in my memory.


June 14th, 2008, 3:34 am
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Unread post Re: Who's the 'agent in place'? *spoilers for latest chapters*
Best way to learn something well; debate the topic or teach the topic. That's what I find useful when revising for lectures - I discuss the topic with my dad in the car, or I help my sister with the same topics I'm covering at uni, only in more detail.

Still, links for the fanfiction? Canon-compliancy is a godsend when it comes to the Pit sometimes.


June 14th, 2008, 4:09 am
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Unread post Re: Who's the 'agent in place'? *spoilers for latest chapters*
Am I the only one that assumed it was a prefect from Ravenclaw? I mean, that would solve most of the problens relating to the character being able to preform said actions.


June 14th, 2008, 6:52 am
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Unread post Re: Who's the 'agent in place'? *spoilers for latest chapters*
Zerrat wrote:
Best way to learn something well; debate the topic or teach the topic. That's what I find useful when revising for lectures - I discuss the topic with my dad in the car, or I help my sister with the same topics I'm covering at uni, only in more detail.

Still, links for the fanfiction? Canon-compliancy is a godsend when it comes to the Pit sometimes.
Sure, it's at http://www.fictionalley.org/authors/mantis/. A couple of caveats: it's canon-compliant through GoF, but my AU diverges from canon rather sharply on July 31, 1995. I started writing it shortly before OotP came out, and while I incorporated some information from that book, I did not treat it as binding. As my icon suggests, it involves a much more successful romance between Harry and Cho than we saw in canon.
Quote:
Am I the only one that assumed it was a prefect from Ravenclaw? I mean, that would solve most of the problems relating to the character being able to perform said actions.
Others have speculated on that possibility upthread, and it remains a plausible scenario. However, I think that a Slytherin with an extra wand, used only for the assaults and concealed the rest of the time, makes more sense. If things get much worse, the professors are liable to Priori Incantatem every known wand in the school, regardless of house. It's sort of like the concept, which I've seen some in mystery fiction, of an assassin or vigilante who owns a whole bunch of guns, every one of them licensed and registered -- plus one unregistered one with no serial numbers which he keeps stashed somewhere away from his office, residence, car, etc. so that even if it's found by chance it can't be traced to him and a comprehensive search warrant on him will never turn it up. When he's suspected in a murder, the police will check the bullets found in the victim against all of the guns the suspect owns... and come up empty.


June 14th, 2008, 11:43 am
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Unread post Re: Who's the 'agent in place'? *spoilers for latest chapters*
that's an incredibly reasoned approach, Mantis.

Of course, I applaud it even more because I happen to agree with you, and when people agree with you, they just seem smarter, don't they? :lol:

The thing is this: we know that some of the purebloods get tutoring and are capable of spells beyond their years, so a third year with the right teaching might be capable of a disillusionment spell, which could be why noone could see where the spell originated from directly.

Let us not also forget the possibility of a spare wand being used, for the very purpose of hiding that person's actions, or, if he is as smart as Harry, a lot of minor castings done to clear the wand of the blasting spell.

Lots of possibilities still, but I still lean very much on Theo Nott


July 12th, 2008, 2:55 pm
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Unread post Re: Who's the 'agent in place'? *spoilers for latest chapters*
coronal wrote:
I think the "only mind being worthy" comment was still about being Slytherin. Look at most of them. They blatantly attack Potter, openly badmouth him, are SEEN repeatedly sabotaging him. That's not sly. That's not clever. That's just dumb.

To be truly sly, you need to be smart, yes. But you need to be able to manipulate people without getting caught. You run things from BEHIND the scenes, which is what a TRUE Slytherin would do. Look at Slughorn during potions, and you'll see what I mean.

A TRUE Slytherin would make sure they were sorted into a different house. No sense letting people know what you are.


September 4th, 2008, 4:47 pm
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Unread post Re: Who's the 'agent in place'? *spoilers for latest chapters*
Bah. Gryffindor is for annoying hero types.

"There's a Dark Lord/Lady who will smite all who oppose him/her! Let us openly and obviously rebel against him/her!" Not smart.

I'd rather be Ravenclaw or Hufflepuff seeing as Slytherin doesn't live up to its name. Ravenclaw would be smart enough to begin a subtle rebellion emphasising their strengths and the enemies weaknesses. Hufflepuffs are just awesome. They make me think of fluffy animals. Plus, they're supposed to be true and loyal friends. This means that they'd be good, trustworthy counterparts for Ravenclaw leaders in case of a Dark Lord rising.


September 4th, 2008, 5:18 pm
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Unread post Re: Who's the 'agent in place'? *spoilers for latest chapters*
Heh, what about a Gryfindor-ish Ravenclaw? Somewhat reckless, and hot-tempered, but when the chips are down there's no one better to be backed into a corner with, because not only are they willing to get down an' dirty in order to kick ass and take names, they're smart enough to know how to maximize the damage to the enemy during said name-taking while minimizing friendly casualties.

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September 4th, 2008, 7:50 pm
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Unread post Re: Who's the 'agent in place'? *spoilers for latest chapters*
But you still have to deal with that oh so bothersome Heroic streak. Cool in books, just plain suicidal in real life.

Which reminds me of a paper I did in 7th grade. We had to do a compare and contrast paper of ourselves to a fictional character. I was an ELP person so the evil ELP lady wanted us to say we were awesome. :roll: She showed us a paper where some prick said the only difference between herself and the magical beautiful princess was that she did volleyball, had short hair, and didn't have a pet dragon or something equally stupid. Needless to say, we rebelled. I chose Pipkin of Watership Down. Another particularly memorable paper was somebody comparing himself to Harry Potter. Only instead of comparing awesomeness, he compared flaws. Everyone loved them and our English teacher kept them and shared them with the other English teachers to use as examples. I still get asked about it occasionally.

The evil ELP lady hated our papers.


September 6th, 2008, 12:08 am
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Unread post Re: Who's the 'agent in place'? *spoilers for latest chapters*
ELP = ?

And yeah, it hurts the jars the reader when they run smack dab into the author's ego.


September 6th, 2008, 3:40 am
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Unread post Re: Who's the 'agent in place'? *spoilers for latest chapters*
Extended Learning Program.
It's for us 'gifted' students. You get better college counseling, but have to put up with some crazy evil ELP lady trying to teach you to be a 'good leader' and make you so over-confident in your abilities that you'll be screwed when you actually enter the workplace. This year should be better though, every other week we'll get my old art teacher. In between we get some lady who stole a rock from a science teacher in order to tell us not to eat them. Which is actually healthy. If you didn't eat some rocks you'd become sick.

And that girl was lucky her name was omitted because I think a few of us would have taken it on ourselves to smash her ego.

So yeah, I don't particularly like the whole 'Gryffindors are brave and cool.' That attitude can make them reckless and detrimental to a resistance.


Last edited by ewuvi on September 6th, 2008, 7:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.



September 6th, 2008, 11:55 am
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Unread post Re: Who's the 'agent in place'? *spoilers for latest chapters*
How about "Gryffindors tend to die young" - that one's equally true.

Of course, Harry isn't much of a Gryffindor, not as much as others anyway. That'll be quite evident soonish.


September 6th, 2008, 6:57 pm
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Unread post Re: Who's the 'agent in place'? *spoilers for latest chapters*
Quote:
How about "Gryffindors tend to die young" - that one's equally true.

Of course, Harry isn't much of a Gryffindor, not as much as others anyway. That'll be quite evident soonish.


Hooray for Harry brutally murdering Melissa's killer.


September 6th, 2008, 9:18 pm
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Unread post Re: Who's the 'agent in place'? *spoilers for latest chapters*
viridian wrote:
How about "Gryffindors tend to die young" - that one's equally true.

Of course, Harry isn't much of a Gryffindor, not as much as others anyway. That'll be quite evident soonish.

That would be because while most Gryffindors appear to be brave to the point of stupid, they all seem to be horribly, horribly naive in one way or another. Harry's not naive, he's a blooded warrior with a very large chip on his shoulder and more power to burn than Chernobyl at critical mass. Whoever killed Melissa is going to be begging for Harry to end the torment, and I honestly believe that he won't do it. That type doesn't lear unless there's a constant reminder of what could happen to them if they follow through on their plots. Perhaps sealing the killer up, alive, aware, and frozen in time, in crystal just after casting something like a high powered blood-boiling curse, to stand as an example of what will happen to those who follow Voldemort's ideoligies?

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September 6th, 2008, 9:27 pm
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Unread post Re: Who's the 'agent in place'? *spoilers for latest chapters*
That's cruel to the point that I'm horrified. Harry wouldn't do it, it would clearly define him as a monster, something that Harry probably is against. He's fighting against this 'evil', would he really condemn someone to an eternity of excruciating torture just to make an example? If anything, it would hurt Harry's cause, making more people join Voldemort in order to gain protection from Harry.

Harry's got a chip on his shoulder, sure, but it isn't in his nature to be so, so cruel.


September 6th, 2008, 9:35 pm
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Unread post Re: Who's the 'agent in place'? *spoilers for latest chapters*
:agree:

I'm with ewuvi on this one. Harry's got a lot of dark emotions bubbling just below the surface, but he's just not that kind of brutal sadist. In many ways, I think NOFP Harry is like Sam Vimes from the Discworld 'City Watch' novels; in that he has his own 'inner policeman', the part of him that watches the other parts of him constantly because it doesn't trust them. The part of him that constantly questioned whether he was just manipulating his friends before they found out his secret. The part of him that made him swallow his annoyance and accept that Molly and Arthur were right to expect him to let Bill in on the secret.


September 6th, 2008, 9:57 pm
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Unread post Re: Who's the 'agent in place'? *spoilers for latest chapters*
Joe wrote:
I'm with ewuvi on this one. Harry's got a lot of dark emotions bubbling just below the surface, but he's just not that kind of brutal sadist. In many ways, I think NOFP Harry is like Sam Vimes from the Discworld 'City Watch' novels; in that he has his own 'inner policeman', the part of him that watches the other parts of him constantly because it doesn't trust them. The part of him that constantly questioned whether he was just manipulating his friends before they found out his secret. The part of him that made him swallow his annoyance and accept that Molly and Arthur were right to expect him to let Bill in on the secret.

On the subject of Sam Vimes...

Quote:
"Tell me, Drummknott, are you a betting man at all?"
"I have been known to have the occasional 'little flutter,' sir."
"Given, then, a contest between an invisible and very powerful quasi-demonic thing of pure vengeance on the one hand, and the commander on the other, where would you wager, say... one dollar?"
"I wouldn't, sir. That looks like one that would go to the judges."
"Yes," said Vetinari, staring thoughtfully at the closed door. "Yes, indeed."


Harry's kinda the same when it comes to sheer willpower.


September 6th, 2008, 10:08 pm
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Unread post Re: Who's the 'agent in place'? *spoilers for latest chapters*
Quote:
Perhaps sealing the killer up, alive, aware, and frozen in time, in crystal just after casting something like a high powered blood-boiling curse, to stand as an example of what will happen to those who follow Voldemort's ideoligies?


Yeah, I'm going to go with ewuvi here too. Harry is strong, not a sadistic madman, and that would freak people out beyond belief (how do you think Dumbledore would react to that?).


September 6th, 2008, 10:45 pm
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