Viridian Dreams Forum

Viridian, characters in your stories engage in sexual insults and assault. That's realistic. Sexual insults makes people feel awkward and embarrassed, so it's sometimes left out of fiction that has an audience old enough for it, but because it's awkward and embarrassing, it's valuable fodder for cheap shots. I'm not going to argue that nobody gets raped in a race war because that would be even stupider than most YouTube comments. But it does seem too frequent or too intense sometimes. The Halloween incident is a good example of this.

Resorting to verbal sexual harassment, especially the kind that has no basis in reality*, is ridiculously crude and juvenile, so it fits Malfoy in a lot of ways. Still, I think it's out of character for him to be so graphic and detailed about a topic he's never heard commenting on in canon. We won't ever know for sure, because Rowling couldn't write him that way if she wanted to, but just because absence of evidence is not evidence of absence doesn't mean the opposite is true. I mean, in book two, he actually thought "you've got a girlfriend!" was a real insult.

I know you had to step up the insults because Hermione felt secure in her friendships with the boys, but jumping from "ha ha, you have no friends!" to "you're having sex with all the boys you know" is an astronomical leap. Also, Hermione went and cried in the bathroom in the original book because she actually didn't have any friends. Since she does in this version and knows that Malfoy is completely making things up, it seems like she would be angry and embarrassed--would that really provoke the exact same behavior as eleven years of misery and loneliness boiling over?

I realize that you were also probably motivated by adding more realism. Like I said above, racism and sexual violence have close ties. Rowling's racism metaphors were clumsy and she probably had barely considered them when writing the first book. Trying to incorporate them more smoothly and integrated throughout the whole story is laudable. But for the reasons I listed above, I don't think that was the way to do it.

It feels like you upped the ante to make Harry's victory more dramatic and make him look better by making Malfoy cross a line. Making your hero heroic and your villains villainous is not bad storytelling, but the way you did it seemed gratuitous and out of character for Malfoy.

This community seems pretty tight, this is obviously a very serious and emotionally charged topic, and making a whole new account and topic for it on his personal forum feels uncomfortably like a melodramatic public calling out, so I understand if people feel like I'm attacking Viridian, but that is absolutely not my intention. I'm questioning an aspect of his writing style, not his character. I brought this up here because I know this is a good place for discussion. If I thought this fit in another thread, I would have posted there. I actually enjoy almost all of Team 8 and NoFP, which is why I'd really like to hear Viridian's thought process for that scene.

*This isn't approval of slut shaming. It just takes slightly more subtlety to at least know your victim's sexual history or personal desires than to use "you're a whore" as a goto, even though both are totally despicable.

Dude this is something for a review or PM.... regardless you can argue this either way.

I mean, in book two, he actually thought "you've got a girlfriend!" was a real insult.

Hello, there. While I am very obviously not the Authorlord, I felt compelled to offer a rebuttal to you. Namely, I hoped to point out that in this instance, I think you're severely underestimating the capacity for cruelty Malfoy holds. Consider:

In Book I, he makes a well-timed, calculated comment about Hermione that emotionally devastates her, and coincidentally endangers her life. He also challenges Harry to a duel that in the first place he'd have nowhere near the capacity to win, and he also has no intention of fighting; he wants Harry, his only real competition for alpha male in the class, to be gone.

In Book II, he drops the line "you've got a girlfriend!" Think about the poisonous evil in this; he not only harasses all of the Weasleys by dragging something otherwise left well alone into the open, embarrasses Harry by airing it right in front of his nose, and crushes Ginny by looking down his nose at her, implying she's not good enough for the role, and also reminds her in a rather toxic manner that she isn't his girlfriend, that Harry barely even registers her existence.

All I'm saying is, the boy's not in Slytherin only because he's a venomous toerag. Bear that in mind.

Actually, I'm looking at the book right now, and I was mistaken about that scene. None of the Slytherins were in the canon version of it. It was Ron who sent Hermione to the bathroom in tears, albeit unintentionally.

As far as Draco knew, the only consequence of the fake duel challenge was getting Harry caught by Filch. We know exactly what would happen from that: detention and a loss of house points.

Also, while neither of us know exactly what Draco was thinking in Flourish and Blotts, we both know that the jeering insult "you've got a girlfriend" is probably most frequently heard on elementary school playgrounds.

Plus, I think arguing that Malfoy is malicious is not the point. We all know he's a bully. What I'm arguing is that it's out of character for him to result to sexual harassment, especially when he was eleven, and it wasn't necessary or even the best option from a storyteller's perspective.

I have to concur with Wraith on his assessment of the 'girlfriend' line In Chamber of Secrets, I did not read that line as a direct insult, but as a way to embarrass, humiliate, and destabilize others. It was a far more effective barb than a direct insult would have been.

Likewise, in NoFP, the true poison was in how he delivered the attack, and not just in what he said. If he had just gone up to Hermione and called her a whore in front of her friends it would have been easy to laugh off and may have made him look foolish as well. However, his crass behavior in front of others was not even a direct attack (in terms of language, not spirit) but an observation. This could prompt Hermione's brain into analyzing the beliefs and behaviors of her peers; Malfoy's choice of insult makes sense when looked at this way. Granted any logical reasoning would quickly dissuade her of the notions that most classmates believe her to be loose. However 12 year old Hermione has a complex of some kind when it comes to other children, and preteens aren't known for being emotionally stable.

Hermione's reaction is understandable when looking at it a different way. Your post makes it seem like she has friends. She does! But these are her first friends. Insecurities are cropping up, and as I stated above, Draco was attempting to unsteady her. The thought of "Maybe my friends are using me. could have easily slipped into her mind, which would lead to enough distress when combined with every other stressor that is in her life. Additionally we do not know how long each bathroom episode would have lasted without the troll. The reactions were not necessarily equal.

I think agreement can be reached on whether or not Draco is cruel and talented enough for this sort of event to have taken place.

The escalation into such verbal violence is mused upon by Harry in the story itself so I feel little need to expand upon it unless you wish to discuss it.

Thank you for posting this, because my initial reaction was incredibly similar with regards to the Halloween incident until U thought more on it.

I would still argue that there's no direct evidence that Draco's line in Chamber of Secrets was anything more than a childish comeback.

Those are great points regarding Hermione's reaction. However, it does not answer my original question: why did Viridian choose to have Draco use graphic sexual insults? By your argument, it would have made perfect sense for Draco to have talked about them using her for her brain. That's something she expressly worries about in a later chapter. In fact, in the train ride, Harry says this:

"I'm not sure I'm too crazy about her being in the same house with us, Harry," Ron said slowly, staring at the closed door.

"I am. I think she'll be right handy when we're revising."

Imagine the doubts that could have raised in Ron and Hermione's minds!

I would still argue that there's no direct evidence that Draco's line in Chamber of Secrets was anything more than a childish comeback.

Those are great points regarding Hermione's reaction. However, it does not answer my original question: why did Viridian choose to have Draco use graphic sexual insults? By your argument, it would have made perfect sense for Draco to have talked about them using her for her brain. That's something she expressly worries about in a later chapter. In fact, in the train ride, Harry says this:

"I'm not sure I'm too crazy about her being in the same house with us, Harry," Ron said slowly, staring at the closed door.

"I am. I think she'll be right handy when we're revising."

Imagine the doubts that could have raised in Ron and Hermione's minds!

In the original timeline Harrys reactions to Dracos taunting was always in such a way that Draco had a chance to come up with a proper comeback if needed, this is not the case any longer. Draco has at this point (from what I remember) already found out that normal insults (the kind that wouldn't get him in to too much trouble if heard by a teacher) against Harry or his friends normally backfire, so he is forced to go for the more harassing ones. Since Harry and his friends show talent in the classroom, not just their homework, commenting on her only being there to help them with their homework would properly be quite ineffective, however when coupled with the sexual accusation it is quite devastating.
As to your qoute, I don't think Hermione was around to hear that, and Rons focus at that time was properly to forget anything even remotely related to revision, so I don't think he would even remember that comment.

Well, here's my two knuts worth. Due to my father dying when I was only a year old, I was raised primarily by my mother, grandmother, and great grandmother. With a little influence from my uncles. As a result of this and my family's relatively conservative leanings, my childhood was a bit sheltered. Perhaps that colors my perceptions a bit, but I know that when I was eleven, I didn't know what a whore was. Oh sure, I knew it was a very unkind thing to call someone, but I didn't know what it meant. It is entirely possible that Draco didn't know either. He would likely have heard the word used often enough that he knew in which context to use the term to get the maximum effect. He could have simply known it would be an effective insult, without knowing what it actually meant. Of course, it's also entirely possible that he could have known exactly what he was saying. Anyway, I thought I'd throw that out there.

Yeah, Draco is a prick like that.

There's also the perception that Draco is either stupid, incompetent, or both. This is not the case, especially in NoFP.

He's a spoiled rich kid with entitlement issues, overestimates his ability, and doesn't realize that he's playing with fire, true. Then again, he's only eleven and twelve before he get's expelled.

He's also his father's son, and clearly looks up to Lucius. Children learn from watching, and with a sadistic piece of work like Lucius, well it's not surprising.