The Defection of Uchiha Sasuke

[Nitramy]

Am I the only one who thinks that Sasuke will NOT defect or if he will go to Orochimaru, find out that Orochimaru actually...

Spoiler: show

...started Sound to be able to "see" the conspiracy within Konoha from a different perspective, and thus crush it utterly when he sees their weak points?

Of course, this working in tandem with his desire to learn all the world's jutsu would make him a more compelling antagonist, but that would cut out one of the more powerful adversaries for Naruto and his team... still...

And Sasuke staying in the village would work if...

Spoiler: show

...contingent on my previous spoilers, Orochimaru has Sasuke work as a sleeper to find the conspiracy within Konoha.

...Also, agreeing with Naruto to take down Itachi together also helps.

[doc.exe]

Mmm.... It's actually an interesting theory.

Spoiler: show

But I don't see how Orochimaru wanting to destroy the conspiracy would stop him from still being a serious menace for the village, and for Naruto and his team for that matter (unless you are implying that Orochimaru secretely wants to protect Konoha as well, but I don't think that makes sense considering his characterization in Team 8 and everything he has done).

Now I think that it would lead to some interesting situations if Naruto, Hinata and Shino suddenly realize that, in order to defeat the conspiracy, they have to work with Orochimaru and his agents. But I believe they would still consider him an enemy that they will have to confront eventually in order to protect the village from his ambitions.

[MrRigger2]

You're not alone. Like I said with some of my previous posts, the circumstances of the story are different from canon to the point where it wouldn't make sense for Sasuke to defect.

The defection would also no longer fit the theme of the story. As I understand it, the theme of Team 8 is Naruto's growth. As a ninja, as a character, as a person. This is an entirely different theme from canon. Sasuke's defection would not contribute to the theme of Team 8 as it did in canon, and so shouldn't happen.

MrRigger

[jgkitarel]

I think Orochimaru will still be a major villain. While the Evil Authorlord could easily throw that in as a twist, the circumstances would need to be handled very carefully. Orochimaru's megalomania alone makes it difficult to think he would be so involved in a plot to unroot a conspiracy, and it is easily plausible that he could also have been a part of it until he got caught in his experiments.

The conspirators would not protect him, as they are too pragmatic to get themselves caught in the splash fro something like that. While it would not surprise me if they slipped up and got certain parties sniffing more diligently, conspiracies are often exposed because of such happenings, these same conspirators are neither incompetent, nor stupid. They know that some suspect there is one, which is not the same as having proof.

Frankly, in cancelling the Chunin Exams without ensuring that Sarutobi was completely incapacitated, they overplayed themselves. Not only did they publicly undermine the Hokage, but they would have alienated many neutral parties within the council who they would otherwise have needed for the legitimacy of their actions. Not support, but the tacit agreement to accept the comspiracy's success as a fait accompli.

The fact that such a maneuver could have been seen as a logical measure notwithstanding, as Sarutobi's intervention right afterwards showed that they overplayed their hands. Add in that Naruto has a clear ally with one clan (the Aburame), he aslo gained some respect with the leader of another (the Inuzuka). His actions during the invasion, aiding the defense with his Shadow Clones while playing a significant role in subduing Gaara.

[Phht]

Orochimaru being anti-conspiracy doesn't need to clash with his desire to destroy Konoha. After all, he could believe that no one gets to destroy the village except him. So he could work to expose the conspiracy due to the belief that the morons will end up destroying the village and he can't allow that until it's his plans that destroy it.

[Jasruv]

The part of he being the one who granted Nagato the Rin’negan is the only one so far that has really bugged me. I have formulated and seen some theories to explain it (one of the more interesting ones is that he might have only achieved that by sacrificing one of his perfect Mangekyo Sharingan with the Izanagi), but ultimately, I have decided to reserve judgement on that until it’s explained what exactly he did (not to mention that is always possible he was lying to Konan when he said that).

That last is the most important point that most people seem to miss.

Madara LIES!!! He is an ! A very old and likely insane one at that.

I think it would be best to assume that anything he says is at least 75% complete and utter falsehood. And that any truth he does mention is slanted so heavily it looks like a wall.

As far as Sasuke defecting, I really don't see it happening with how the story has gone so far. Orochimaru looks like a failure since he trapped the Sandaime in an almost perfect ambush and failed to kill him (although he did cost Sarutobi an arm.)

Another thing is that he now has an new type of bond with both Naruto and Shino, a bond that I think he would respect as it is about Vengence against Itachi.

Now Sasuke may get abducted and brought to Sound, but I can't see Team8!Sasuke going willingly.

[doc.exe]

Well, Madara was right about the Uchiha massacre being orchestated by the top people of Konoha and about Itachi being "good" and doing everything for the sake of Sasuke, but he clearly lied when he said no Uchiha was behind the Kyuubi attack, and I also believe he was shaping things in such a way that the Uchiha looked like victims when they weren't. Given that example, I think the proportion is more 50-50 (which makes him a more effective liar, because you can never tell when he is telling the truth or not).

And well, regarding Sasuke's defection, I think viridian is still presenting things in such a way that it still remains ambiguous whether or not Sasuke will leave. Now, I personally believe he won't and I actually think Orochimaru has stopped targetting him as his new host (I think his target is Naruto now, mostly because of that scene when, disguised as Kazekage, he demands to see Gaara fighting Naruto).

Now, even if Sasuke doesn't betray the village, I think he will remain a thorn in Naruto's side rather than an ally. While he has developed a grudging respect for Naruto and his team, he is still too prideful and too committed to his goal of personally avenging his family that I don't think he would want or accept their help. I also don't think he took it very well that they are also behind Itachi, and I believe he will actively compete with Team 8 from now on, trying to get more powerful to kill his brother before them.

[jgkitarel]

Hmm, it makes sense. At least this would end up with a more constructive rivalry between him and Naruto. Sasuke's pride is strong enough to make that a good possibility, but it has also taken a serious beating as well. While he may not resort to eating crow and asking for their assistance, if it gets to the point where they are closely matched and he faces Itachi, I doubt he would outright refuse their help if they decide to involve themselves.

One major factor, aside from the possibility of defection, or going unwillingly, will likely depend on Kakashi's ability to teach. While it is generally agreed that he is not a good teacher, at least for a bunch of twelve year old genin, I have taken it to be more of a factor of his temperament, rather than ability. He knows how to be a shinobi and is very good at being one.

However, he is not suited to taking a bunch of kids who have no idea of what they need to do to get better and only know, imperfectly, The Book. They have too much from the Academy to unlearn, before he could even begin to teach them the basics, which is far more comprehensive than what the Academy teaches. It makes more sense if you think of the Academy more like an ROTC program, rather than Basic training. While there is theoretically more time to train students in the skills, they spend more time on Academics and theory out of necessity.

[wolfman11378]

I don't know if it is just me, but everyone seems to be forgetting something: If Sasuke DOES defect, and starts drawing from the curse seal, then

Spoiler: show

Naruto most likely has the ability to disrupt it and effectively destroy it. The proof of this is the final result of his match with Neji. Neji states in chapter 19:

"Your final blow left a large scar," he said quietly.

Naruto resumed his meal after a moment. He wasn't precisely being rude – Neji hadn't asked him a question yet.

"The Caged Bird Seal was completely obliterated when the skin was ripped away," Neji continued after a moment. "That shouldn't be possible, but the medic-nins think a burst of chakra might have disrupted the seal as the blow was struck."

Naruto resumed eating after Neji fell silent again.

Neji took a deep breath after a couple of moments. "That's equally impossible, at least not without killing me, unless there was something very strange about the chakra that was used. But given how you recovered from having your tenketsu closed, that is not very surprising." He turned on his seat, facing directly toward Naruto. "The scar that formed is also suffused with chakra. When the Elders tried to reapply my seal, that chakra disrupted the attempt. At this point, the medic-nins insisted that further attempts would be too dangerous and when Hiashi-sama insisted, the Hokage asserted his authority on the matter. My Uncle tried to have me immediately removed from the hospital, but the request was refused."

What would remain to be seen, however, is whether or not Sasuke would survive the attempt.

However, it should also be pointed out that should the Hyuuga, should they attempt to have Naruto killed or attempt to kill him themselves, they would either have to send Main House members or contract either missing nin or foreign nin to do it, simply because if he

Spoiler: show

can remove one Caged Bird Seal, then he can for all intents and purposes remove them all.

Which, of course, will most likely make him an even bigger target in their eyes. After all, having the ability to destroy something means having control of it.

Given that Neji seems to be amongst the most skilled of the Hyuuga, and the fact that he got owned, and that was in a mostly Taijustu match at that, well, they will probably be spending quite a bit of money.

Food for thought, anyway.

[jgkitarel]

Unfortunately, the Hyugas now have a Tsunade, who is aware of what is going on within the Hyuga family and now has Hinata where she can keep an eye on her, to deal with. Given the nature of Konoha's internal problems, things are likely to come to a head.

Now that Naruto has a means to eliminate the Caged Bird Seal, neither a pleasant nor painless method, but still a means of doing so, the Main Branch is now in a major bind. Naruto just went from annoyance to be dealt with later, to a significant threat to their power and position. Unfortunately for them, he also has the protection of the Hokage, Jiraya, Sarutobi and a number of shinobi who have come to regard him as an asset. Not all the protection is obvious, but with Kakashi and Asuma giving Hiashi a not so subtle threat at Kurenai's funeral, you can see the dynamics are shifting.

It also does not help that the conspirators overplayed their hand in the aftermath of the invasion and gained the enmity of a number of prominent shinobi clans.

[SynzofGlikus]

Hyuga's will overplay, Naruto will live and be enraged enough at collateral damage if my calculations are correct. Well see what the Authorlord intends though ;)

[jgkitarel]

More likely someone else will light that tinderbox first. Hiashi is a skilled and pragmatic enough politician to realize that his current position is tenuous amongst the shinobi now that Kakashi and Asuma gave their little threat to him. While both are protected enough due to their positions and connections, the warning was clear. He has overstepped his bounds enough and the shinobi have noticed. Hiashi, for all of his arrogance, is not stupid. He knows he is not untouchable, though others in his clan may think otherwise.

Whether his pride will be able to take it is another story.

[Dechstreme]

I don't think his pride will take it. He appears to be deluded enough to consider Kakashi sharing his Anti-Eye Based Bloodline Illusions to be treason, after all, at least before Kakashi burst that bubble and pointed out it wouldn't be treason against the village. He's also not taken some smart actions in front of others. Remember the Border Patrol? He all but treated Hinata like garbage to the point of not even acknowledging her presence... in full view of an ANBU contingent and the Heads of the Aburame and Inuzuka. The omakes dealing with the aftermath aren't exactly canon, and so far, we haven't really seen what sort of thoughts Shibi and Tsume had afterwards in regards to the events. And the way Hiashi acted towards them all but screamed that he viewed himself above them, so he probably doesn't think they could do much about the way the Hyuugas act.

Which could turn out to be a big mistake in the long run.

Of course, I'm probably just grasping at straws here.

[jgkitarel]

Don't forget that Tsunade is involved as well and she has taken personal responsibility for Hinata. This means that she, as Hokage, now has a means of potentially looking deeper into matters within the Hyuuga Clan, and if need be, interceding and stopping them cold. Despite the relative autonomy of the clans, this is an unusual situation. Add that Naruto and Shino would likely get involved, that means that the Aburame clan, which considers Hinata a valued ally, would do so as well. We will have to wait and see, but I would not be surprised if Hiashi is about to get slapped down, hard, in the near future.

[Dechstreme]

And it shall be GLORIOUS.

[WarriorDrgnMage]

I hope they slap down Hinabi too the little twerp....

[Dechstreme]

One can only hope.

[Tempest Kitsune]

I'm personally hoping for more of a revelation for Hanabi, a realization that what her father and the clan is doing to Hinata is wrong. I think she was honestly confused by Naruto's attitude towards her when Team 8 rescued her. She's so sheltered that her moral compass is set by what her father and the majority of the clan do. She can't see beyond the clan walls to realize that the Hyuuga are probably looked at as the next Uchiha.

[jgkitarel]

I'm personally hoping for more of a revelation for Hanabi, a realization that what her father and the clan is doing to Hinata is wrong. I think she was honestly confused by Naruto's attitude towards her when Team 8 rescued her. She's so sheltered that her moral compass is set by what her father and the majority of the clan do.

Given her age, she is being molded with the Moral Myopia that tends to happen to powerful and prestigious families. One thing that has become apparent is that the Hyuuga are well connected, if only so they can serve as an easily manipulated patsy if things go wrong. For all that the Byakugan gives the Hyuugas, their own pride would make them perfect for Danzo's schemes, as they would be blind to the fact that they are being manipulated far more than they are doing the manipulating. Yes, I fully believe that Hiashi and his fellow elders are aware that others are manipulating them for their own ends, but they also believe that they are the ones ultimately in control.

She can't see beyond the clan walls to realize that the Hyuuga are probably looked at as the next Uchiha.

And not in a good way, either. I also don't think she realizes that she is being groomed to be an easily manipulated puppet. That revelation will probably be something that breaks her while everything about her clan falls down around her. It's already clear that the Evil Authorlord is setting events up for that. Don't know how many chapters in the future it will be, but Tsunade has spent years outside the village, so she will be coming in without any preconceived notions on taking a hands off policy to an uppity clan and a bunch of geriatrics who have illusions of having more power than they actually do. Jiraya is also doing what he can to ensure that this particular boil finally gets lanced by her through making sure she is informed of just how absolutely fucked up several things are in Konoha.

One thing that sometimes gets missed, is that while the Hokage does not have absolute power, they still have the power to clean house. Sarutobi had clear reasons not to, if only to maintain the illusion of strength and that all was well within Konoha in the aftermath of the Kyubi. However, by the time things improved to where he could, the shock of the Uchiha massacre and the fact that several situations had become entrenched due to his being quiet about it, meant that his options became severely limited. Sarutobi admits that he dropped the ball on this one.

[Avinia]

I've read this forum twice (But probably missed it):
Nobody's suggested that Sakura does the same thing in canon, then knocks him out before he could, did they?
~She's already started critisizing him, so if Sasuke pulls that after Sakura has had enough time to break from her fangirl tendencies, Inner Sakura might just take over and finish the job a responsible ninja would.
~Inner Sakura was once shown to take over her when Ino tried possession. If she shut down from the shock, would the same thing happen?

[jgkitarel]

It's hard to tell, really. Team 7 gets relatively little focus, mostly because things are more interesting for Team 8, though the Evil! Authorlord is starting to include them more and they will have more plot relevance as the story goes on.

The biggest thing, though, is that Sakura as both Kiba and Sasuke as teammates, and without Naruto's influence to serve as a foil to Sasuke, not to mention as a tolerated nuisance to Sakura, she is getting a more nuanced view of things. Kiba is less likely to be nice to Sakura since he doesn't have a childish crush on her and Naruto basically put the proverbial nail in the coffin of her preconceived notions by nipping Lee's crush on her in the bud.

Right now, she is in the process of taking a hard look at herself and she does not like what she is seeing.

[MortisMage]

I don't know if it is just me, but everyone seems to be forgetting something: If Sasuke DOES defect, and starts drawing from the curse seal, then
Naruto most likely has the ability to disrupt it and effectively destroy it. The proof of this is the final result of his match with Neji. Neji states in chapter 19:

"Your final blow left a large scar," he said quietly.

Naruto resumed his meal after a moment. He wasn't precisely being rude – Neji hadn't asked him a question yet.

"The Caged Bird Seal was completely obliterated when the skin was ripped away," Neji continued after a moment. "That shouldn't be possible, but the medic-nins think a burst of chakra might have disrupted the seal as the blow was struck."

Naruto resumed eating after Neji fell silent again.

Neji took a deep breath after a couple of moments. "That's equally impossible, at least not without killing me, unless there was something very strange about the chakra that was used. But given how you recovered from having your tenketsu closed, that is not very surprising." He turned on his seat, facing directly toward Naruto. "The scar that formed is also suffused with chakra. When the Elders tried to reapply my seal, that chakra disrupted the attempt. At this point, the medic-nins insisted that further attempts would be too dangerous and when Hiashi-sama insisted, the Hokage asserted his authority on the matter. My Uncle tried to have me immediately removed from the hospital, but the request was refused."

What would remain to be seen, however, is whether or not Sasuke would survive the attempt.

Ah, plot convenience.

What remains to be seen is if Naruto can inflict that same sort of wound against the Cursed Seal, assuming he even knows that Sasuke still has it. It's not exactly in the most noticeable place. Now, with Team 8 rules, yeah, I guess there's nothing really stopping Kurama-chakra from plugging that seal. On the other hand, Cursed Seal Sasuke is fast enough to deal with One-Tailed Naruto, so speed might be an issue. Naruto had the advantage in speed against Neji and already had him on the ropes.

But, if this does work, that just means that Naruto finally stuck something inside of Sasuke to shut him up.

(NaruSasu shipping!)

No.

Here's the way I imagine things. Naruto is essentially wannabe Rock Lee-tier in Team 8 present. Because of that, he stands a better chance against Kimimmaro. However, since Hinata or Shino will inevitably be going on the Retrieval Mission, if it happens, he's probably not going to want to leave them behind. He might stick around to help them fight off another of the Sound Four. If he doesn't do that, and since Team 8!Naruto isn't friends with Team 8!Sasuke, Naruto probably won't give so much of a damn about letting Sasuke go.

Plot twist.

So he decides to fend off Kimimmaro, or another of the Sound Four, while Rock Lee or Shikamaru or someone more interested goes after Sasuke. This will go about as well as it did in canon.

On the other hand, rather than deal with complaints about "hugging canon", the author (not authorlord, FFS) might avoid this all together and simply have Sasuke remain in the village. And that will open the doorway to all kinds of crazy shit.

So my vote is for Sasuke to stay in the village. His continued presence will largely f-ck things up, since Part II largely focuses on getting him back. Naruto sending Team 7 to the Tower early prompted Kakashi to get a better sealmaster to deal with the Cursed Seal, and the Sasuke Retrieval arc is GONE.

In it's place, two Cloud ninja decide to kidnap Hinata, leading to the Hinata Retrieval arc.

[Wraith5]

So my vote is for Sasuke to stay in the village. His continued presence will largely f-ck things up, since Part II largely focuses on getting him back. Naruto sending Team 7 to the Tower early prompted Kakashi to get a better sealmaster to deal with the Cursed Seal, and the Sasuke Retrieval arc is GONE.

Well, keep in mind. The only person actually affiliated with Konoha who is considered a seal master and is... well... still alive... is Jiraiya. Sure, the Third probably knows a few seals, but I'm pretty sure he wasn't a seal master. (On that note, someone with a seal summons could be DAMN hilarious...)
------------
Hmm... I actually think it would be rather entertaining for Naruto to just smack Sasuke around a bit (I dunno, he catches Sasuke trying to leave because he decided to go for a walk that night for some reason?), then makes up his OWN seal to contain/control/destroy Orochimaru's. I mean, he did give Sasuke quite the wakeup call during the Prelims in the Chunin Exam, but I sincerely doubt there's any way Sasuke has gotten all the way up to Naruto's new level yet. And then there's Naruto's little 'agreement' with Kurama about the "you die, I die" thing. If Naruto starts to get completely overwhelmed by Sasuke with the Cursed Seal, Naruto just 'pokes' the fox and gets some help. Maybe it helps enough, maybe it's only enough for Naruto to survive. Would still be rather different.
On the other hand, what if Hinata were to examine the Seal? I mean, sure I'm over simplifying it, but the Seal is it's own chakra source. A few Jyuuken strikes could seriously screw things up... or make it a lot worse for Sasuke... uhh...
EDIT:
Even more bizarre. What if the Aburame tried breeding a strain of kikai specifically to counter the chakra in the Cursed Seal?

[jgkitarel]

Of course, Sasuke has one noted trait. That being, the lack of said seal due to Naruto interfering and getting it long enough to blow it up.

[Wraith5]

Of course, Sasuke has one noted trait. That being, the lack of said seal due to Naruto interfering and getting it long enough to blow it up.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Orochimaru gave them both a seal (it was never specified how the different cursed seals are actually different, other than the Cursed Seal of Heaven (the one Sasuke and Anko have) being the strongest, if I remember correctly...), but Naruto's was an accident. Naruto just blew his up, which would've badly hurt Sasuke if HIS cursed seal hadn't been activated at that point. Right? Or did I miss something?