The Defection of Uchiha Sasuke

The Defection of Uchiha Sasuke

Unread postby Zerrat » August 22nd, 2008, 10:18 am

With two defeats at the hands of a ninja Sasuke perceives to be second-rate and a fool, we have been told that he is taking his training under Kakashi more seriously than ever. He has seen exponential growth in Naruto - as a result of Konoha-nin training. Whether or not he admits this is a different story all together.

But is this enough to turn the Uchiha from the path of defection and desertion? In the end, I feel that it is unlikely. This kid wants to destroy his older brother, and his role as an avenger is deeply ingrained into his psyche. He wants the power to get revenge, and he wants it now.

So the question is asked: when do you think that Sasuke will betray Konoha, or even if? For what reasons?

This is a pretty huge arc in Naruto, and I somehow don't think the AU divergence point is enough to save the fool from betraying Konoha. So, in my opinion, it's 'when', rather than 'if'. Exactly what the consequences of this defection - successful or not - are still foggy.

So, speculation anyone?
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Re: The Defection of Uchiha Sasuke

Unread postby Darkandus » August 22nd, 2008, 10:38 am

Hmm. To be honest I feel Sasuke's attempt to leave is inevetable. After all, in both canon and T8 it has been said the cursed seal alters the mind of those inflicted with it. In canon, the major catalyst was Naruto. You could even see how unreasonable Sasuke had become before he left. In Team 8 however I believe while his defection in inevetable it's success is also greatly reduced.

For example. The manpower of Konoha hasn't been as greatly reduced as it was in canon. They can afford to send Anbu after him. And that's if they don't catch Orochimaru's men in Konoha as they try to convince Sasuke. I have always believed Orochimarus plan was twofold when he attacked Konoha. If he destroys Konoha he gets Sasuke as easy as that. If he fails he still reduces the population enough to make taking Sasuke a simple task. That however won't work in Team 8.
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Re: The Defection of Uchiha Sasuke

Unread postby MorphCross » August 22nd, 2008, 2:39 pm

Ah, point of reference. It wasn't just Naruto overshadowing him which led to his defection. Remember that Itachi came and mind-f***ed him while calling him weak, as well as the fact that Sasuke discovered that Itachi was after Naruto. This played a huge role in Sakuke's defection from Konoha. So it's not all about Sasuke vs. Naruto. :cheers:
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Re: The Defection of Uchiha Sasuke

Unread postby Darkandus » August 22nd, 2008, 2:49 pm

True, but if Naruto hadn't been there Itachi wouldn't have been there. That combined with Sasuke's feeling of inferiority and Itachi's lack of desire to fight him led Sasuke into thinking Naruto was even more important, driving him to want power he felt he could only achieve by going to Orochimaru thanks to the mind altering effects of the cursed seal. I have always believed he wouldn't have left had in not been for the cursed seal.
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Re: The Defection of Uchiha Sasuke

Unread postby Ironwolf » August 22nd, 2008, 6:05 pm

The mission to Tea Country is what really kicked this whole mess off, at least it was one of the final straws before he defected, because Sasuke had built a lot of his identity on the fact that he was the best; that he was going, and getting, strong enough to kill his brother. However, the problem was that Naruto displayed a certain level of power and skill in that one mission that he never even come close to previously, ever. Deafeating that Gennin team while underwater, water walking, beating the flaming %*#$ out of that Aoi punk...note, they hopefully recover the sword when we see this mission in T8, because that is one Hell of an artifact to simply lose due to sloppiness.

The Tea Country mission was the reason for Sasuke to challenge Naruto to a fight on the rooftop of the hospital, and ultimately ending in a contest between the Rasengan and the Chidori. Sasuke didn't really care what he did to Naruto in that fight, he just wanted to prove that he had to more powerful attack, a fact that was initially supported in his mind, because you know these youngun's, they equate strength of the ninja to how powerful their jutsu are. And when it was proven that Sasuke lost that contest as well...well, it was a good thing that Naruto wasn't within arms reach.

So now, at least in Sasuke's moronic mind, Naruto, the target of his brother's attention, is getting stronger faster than Sasuke himself is. The ultimate effect of this is that it becomes more and more likely that Itachi will focus on Naruto and not Duck-Butt, something that must not be allowed, so he would jump at any chance to get the power to be stronger than Itachi and Naruto, just to restore the order that he believes in.
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Re: The Defection of Uchiha Sasuke

Unread postby MEKristian » August 22nd, 2008, 6:17 pm

The question is if we can actually factor tea Country into this equation; It's an anime-only Filler Arc... thus, in the Manga, the fight took place as soon as Sasuke woke up from Tsukiyomi, give-or-take.
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Re: The Defection of Uchiha Sasuke

Unread postby Ironwolf » August 22nd, 2008, 6:35 pm

Well, Matt has said that he uses the anime as his guide for the storyline.
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Re: The Defection of Uchiha Sasuke

Unread postby MEKristian » August 22nd, 2008, 6:52 pm

The main point is "Is it really necessary for what happened in the Tea Country arc to attribute to Sasuke leaving?" Which for me at least is a "no". It effectively galvanized Sasuke's feelings of inferiority in the anime, but it doesn't seem needed for Sasuke to turn traitor.

Heck, what would Team 8-Canon Team 7's chances BE against an opponent like Aoi without Kakashi? Sure, that's entirely hypothetical, as Team 7 really doesn't have what it takes to go on such a mission with only the genin, but still...
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Re: The Defection of Uchiha Sasuke

Unread postby MorphCross » August 22nd, 2008, 7:44 pm

I would say Team 8's team 7 would have a better chance against Aoi considering that Kakashi is now taking their training seriously.

Hey, Darkandus, you are correct that Naruto's presence in the equation did exacerbate the tension between Sasuke and Itachi, but my point was in relation to Team 8, not canon. Events may not follow as canon does, especially in light of the unmentionable chapters (something like 390-405) so in speculation for Team 8 I was saying that this may not be the case.

That was my fault though, for not making my point clear.
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Re: The Defection of Uchiha Sasuke

Unread postby Tapeworm » August 23rd, 2008, 12:41 am

I didn't see this mentioned before, if I'm wrong, apologies.

A major factor in Sasuke wigging out and defecting was being confronted by Itachi and being forced to watch his family die in the 72-hour Genjutsu. This could still happen or not happen, as the success of the invasion really wouldn't matter to someone with Itachi's skill. Whether he meets Sasuke or not would depend on whether the plot demanded he would. On one hand, Sasuke is not on Naruto's team this time, and on the other Itachi might very well have more than a passing interest in his younger brother and seek him out anyway >.>
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Re: The Defection of Uchiha Sasuke

Unread postby Jaur » August 23rd, 2008, 3:50 am

I agree that the renewed torture was a huge factor. The big question here is if Itachi will show up at all.
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As mentionerd recently in the manga the reason for Itachi to show up in Konoha after the invasion was the death of the third Hokage. Since he is still alive in team 8 Itachi will not have a pressing reason to visit his home village and will not need the excuse of going after Naruto. Without the confrontation and with Kakashi's new training regimen Sasukes deflection seems less certain.
Even so, Sasukes treason is a HUGE plotline in canon. If it is ignored and he stays in Konoha the story has defenitely left any resemblance to the original plotline. Therefore I think that Viridian is going to find a good storyline that ends in Sasukes deflection anyway. It may take longer and not happen exactly the same way but it will happen.

/Jaur
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Re: The Defection of Uchiha Sasuke

Unread postby ShonenHero » August 23rd, 2008, 10:02 am

I agree that the renewed torture was a huge factor. The big question here is if Itachi will show up at all.
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As mentionerd recently in the manga the reason for Itachi to show up in Konoha after the invasion was the death of the third Hokage. Since he is still alive in team 8 Itachi will not have a pressing reason to visit his home village and will not need the excuse of going after Naruto. Without the confrontation and with Kakashi's new training regimen Sasukes deflection seems less certain.
Even so, Sasukes treason is a HUGE plotline in canon. If it is ignored and he stays in Konoha the story has defenitely left any resemblance to the original plotline. Therefore I think that Viridian is going to find a good storyline that ends in Sasukes deflection anyway. It may take longer and not happen exactly the same way but it will happen.

/Jaur
It kinda sounds like your implying that Team 8 wouldn't be a good story if Sasuke didn't defect... :|
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Re: The Defection of Uchiha Sasuke

Unread postby dragoon740 » August 23rd, 2008, 10:22 am

I don't think that is what Juas means. He is just saying that Team 8 will just take a different route to the "Sasuke Defection" arc. What I am curious about is the whole kill-best-friend-and-get-god-like-evil-eyes. In canon Sasuke tried to kill Naruto so that he could obtain the Mangeyoko Sharingan. In team 8 Naruto and Sasuke do not have much interaction to become even friends, just acquantences. My question is that if Sasuke wants to obtain the super-eyes what will he do to reach that goal?
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Re: The Defection of Uchiha Sasuke

Unread postby Darkandus » August 23rd, 2008, 10:23 am

Try to kill Kiba?
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Re: The Defection of Uchiha Sasuke

Unread postby Zerrat » August 23rd, 2008, 10:37 am

Then it would appear that Kiba's life is in peril, because I don't think Kiba will put up the fight that Naruto did. Adding to the fact that he doesn't possess crazy healing power...
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Re: The Defection of Uchiha Sasuke

Unread postby ShonenHero » August 23rd, 2008, 10:42 am

I don't think that is what Juas means. He is just saying that Team 8 will just take a different route to the "Sasuke Defection" arc.
Yes, but that implies that Sasuke would defect in the first place. :P

Look, all I'm saying is that we don't know if Sasuke's really going to defect. It might not even happen at all. We shouldn't assume that just because Sasuke's defection was precedent in canon that means it would hold precedence in Team 8.
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Re: The Defection of Uchiha Sasuke

Unread postby Zerrat » August 23rd, 2008, 10:54 am

Conversely, it could hold true for Team 8. In this continuity, since Naruto has no reason to hold back, he may go all out and simply take out Sasuke. None of this 'rescue Sasuke' crap. The kid should have been hunted as a missing nin and killed when he made his choice clear, last Uchiha or not.

Still, if Naruto DID kill Sasuke, that still presents a huge twist in the plotline and overall continuity of the universe with canon.
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Re: The Defection of Uchiha Sasuke

Unread postby ShonenHero » August 23rd, 2008, 11:09 am

Conversely, it could hold true for Team 8. In this continuity, since Naruto has no reason to hold back, he may go all out and simply take out Sasuke. None of this 'rescue Sasuke' crap. The kid should have been hunted as a missing nin and killed when he made his choice clear, last Uchiha or not.

Still, if Naruto DID kill Sasuke, that still presents a huge twist in the plotline and overall continuity of the universe with canon.
I know, I know. I was just saying we shouldn't assume is all. :jest:

Still, I agree. If Sasuke made his intentions quite clear to Naruto, I don't think Naruto would have any qualms with killing the 'last' Uchiha. :devil
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Re: The Defection of Uchiha Sasuke

Unread postby dragoon740 » August 23rd, 2008, 11:17 am

I son't know whether Sasuke will defect or not it is just my speculation that if he did would he try to kill Kiba. But even then I don't think that Sasuke considers Kiba his best friend. Kiba considers Akamaru his best freind and Sasuke a part of his pack. Sasuke knows this and probably agrees. This also keeps Sasuke a little less dangerous because he is able to keep his distance from everyone and not be tempted by Itachi's words (don't know why since Itachi only wanted to protect Sasuke). And Sakura probably only counts as a comrade because of his distaste of fan-girls and his memory of her being one.
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Re: The Defection of Uchiha Sasuke

Unread postby Ironwolf » August 23rd, 2008, 2:07 pm

Well, what were the factors that caused Sasuke to defect in the first place? Being overshadowed (in his mind...and in reality) by Naruto, the CS, and finding out that Itachi is more interested with Naruto then his own brother. All in all, there is no "Good End"to this.
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Re: The Defection of Uchiha Sasuke

Unread postby Jaur » August 23rd, 2008, 4:47 pm

Spencinator; I didn't mean that it would be a bad story that way - just very different. What I meant to say was that I guess that he will run to snakeface. I base the guess on the few hints given from sasukes reactions earlier in the story and my impression that Viridian will stick to the main plotline and show how different it could be when Naruto is in team 8. However it remains a guess and nothing else. A totally different plotline is possible and could be great. I just don't think we will see it.
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Re: The Defection of Uchiha Sasuke

Unread postby Joe » August 23rd, 2008, 5:58 pm

Well firstly, even if Viridian does mostly follow the canon storyline events at first, he can only do that for so long before the cumulative ripple effect from the AU divergence point (which really began to pick up steam when it effected Naruto, who, as we all know, has an enormous effect on those around him) renders the timeline almost totally unrecognizable.

Of course, things like Sasuke's emo tendencies, his hunger for power and the Snake Sannin's frankly creepy obsession with him have a certain momentum behind them, but Konoha's greatly improved post invasion military status and the more stable social dynamics of this timeline's Team 7 may preclude Sasuke's defection, or even his desire too.

Plus, I suspect the AU divergence point and events immediately thereof will gain more focus as the story winds on and we find out more about the many dastardly deeds Hiashi is up to. ;)
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Re: The Defection of Uchiha Sasuke

Unread postby telosphilos » September 12th, 2008, 7:11 pm

The more I think about it the more I think you could actually sell the idea of an actual rescue mission rather than simply a retrieval. Sure he'd still be tempted, but the actual decision to defect might not be something they are willing to wait for. The Sound Four might even get away easier if they don't bother with the crap about giving Sasuke a choice in the matter. Some clever use of knock out drugs and running like hell should be enough to get them well outside the boarders before Naruto and Co can do a whole hell of a lot.

The push for Sasuke to go of his own free will simply isn't there in T8 the way it is in canon. I don't think that should stop him from winding up in Sound studying under the Hebi-teme. I do think that his personal opinion of the whole misadventure could and probably should be decidedly mixed. He's got plenty to tempt him to stay and very little to actually make him want to go back to Konoha. He'd wind up staying put due more to a lack of determination to leave as opposed to a true desire to stay. It seems like his staying in Konoha was determined by much the same thing.
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Re: The Defection of Uchiha Sasuke

Unread postby Azuriyuu » September 16th, 2008, 7:33 am

Spencinator; I didn't mean that it would be a bad story that way - just very different. What I meant to say was that I guess that he will run to snakeface. I base the guess on the few hints given from sasukes reactions earlier in the story and my impression that Viridian will stick to the main plotline and show how different it could be when Naruto is in team 8. However it remains a guess and nothing else. A totally different plotline is possible and could be great. I just don't think we will see it.
Long version of my response:
Spoiler: show
Oh, it will differ, no if about it. One of the big things about many fanfics is that they often go the "Because Destiny Says So" route, whereas Team 8 is going the "Butterfly Effect" route. For starters...

Just look at the character's power differences visible at the current chapter, first:

Positive:
Naruto(Better mentor)
Hinata(More motivation)
Shino(Driven by observation of Naruto)
Rock Lee(Extra training partner)
Orochimaru(He still has one arm; can probably still use ninjutsu via single-hand handsigns)
Konoha in General(Less dead people)

Negative:
Probably Sasuke(No rival to compete with)
Probably Kiba(Less caring mentor)
Probably Neji(Likely not going to be trained by his uncle)

Since Sasuke has No rival to compete with, he has No rival to be jealous of, giving Kakashi more time to try to stablize the kid's psyche before he flips out and goes over to the dark side.


Also, looking at what's 'dangerous', and the foreshadowing, it seems...

Orochimaru is less of a focused upon threat.
Lack of Dead Hokage means the less pressing need to find a new one like Tsunade.
Naruto's showing at the genin exam means that he might be promoted(Frankly, with a little Genjutsu training he would deserve it).
Naruto's showing at the genin exam had foreshadowing that there might be Hyuuga assassins after him.
General foreshadowing that the Hyuuga clan is going to end up being main or near-main antagonists.

If my predictions are correct, either this next chapter or after Tsunade appears is when the ripples of change become waves, and Viridian takes the entirely different direction.

People will probably start dying.
tl:dr version

The canon issues are smaller threats in T8; The Hyuuga clan is a big threat.
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Re: The Defection of Uchiha Sasuke

Unread postby viridian » September 17th, 2008, 4:51 am

Viridian will stick to the main plotline and show how different it could be when Naruto is in team 8.
Those two objectives don't really walk hand-in-hand. In fact, past a certain point they are mutually exclusive...
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