Chapter 20 Discussion

[Tempest Kitsune]

All I can say is... wow. Just...wow.

[Darkandus]

*Moves to new thread, rage ever increasing.*

[MrRigger2]

Given the revelation of several of Sasuke's thought processes during this chapter, I don't think Sasuke will defect to Orochimaru after all. He's a jerk, but given that he's recognizing that the others are growing stronger in Konoha, I think he's likely to see weakness within himself, rather than weakness within Konoha's methods. I expect we'll see Sasuke working himself to the bone in the very near future.

MrRigger

[gman391]

And that folks is what we call a wham episode.

......Damn.

[Darkandus]

...Good chapter.

I'll say more later. When I'm not resisting the urge to put my fist through the screen.

[MrRigger2]

And remember Dark, it was all planned by the EVIL AUTHORLORD! Never forget his title!

MrRigger

[Darkandus]

Like I'd ever forget, now my teeth hurt.

[bibliophile20]

Hey, no muscling in on my turf! *points to title*

On a related note... according to my archives, I have known about this little plot point since August 24, 2006. So, yeah, he's been planning this for at least that long.

Just in case you were wondering.

[Phht]

*opens mouth* ... *closes mouth*





...


Any chance for a T8 AU that avoids that event?

[Darkandus]

Well...on the brightside. OH WAIT, THERE IS NO BRIGHTSIDE! Good job Viridian, you Magnificent Bastard. You have won my everlasting respect.

[MrRigger2]

And something I just thought of? All those who were hoping and believing that Kurenai would swoop in and save Hinata and take her in after a presumed expulsion from the Hyuuga clan? Well, that won't be happening to say the least. Hinata's most effective supporter is gone. Naruto is a bigger supporter, but Kurenai was going to be the one to get things done, so Hinata's on her own, unless she really gets Jiraiya on her side.

Oh, I just had a great image. They track down Tsunade, and needless to say, Hinata and Naruto are not their normal, happy go lucky selves, and Tsunade starts teaching them how to drown their sorrows in sake and gambling. The End.

MrRigger

[Halinmonk]

Oh my crap

[Aldraia Dragonsong]

. . .

And let the explosions begin...

[unknown517]

hahahaha wow

I didn't see that one coming! (I was putting my metaphorical money on Hinata getting her pretty little head caved in by one of the big guns of the setting - Orochimaru, Itachi/Kisame, etc.)

[Nasdaq]

Huh. Didn't see that coming.

Though I've never seen Itachi as a 'good guy.' More like a perfect example of Uchiha pride, thinking he's doing good through a profoundly evil action. Plus, killing someone who saw through his ultimate weapon really wouldn't be out of character; remember, he's a greater good sort in canon. Killing one person for his greater plan would likely not phase him.

Hell, I think he makes a better villain that way.

All in all, I give the chapter a B-. Good for wham, and development, but seemed somewhat rushed. Too much crammed into a single chapter, as it would be. But that's just sort of my prerogative. Too much size and not enough volume either makes no events stick or makes just one event stick. After the Kurenai moment, the chapter lost something. It would have been a good cliffhanger, or if you'd just wrapped things up and had them leave after that, because as a result you've caused problems with anything that comes after. It loses something. You could write something really amazing and even more shocking than that, but the reader's stomach is already in his feet. Thus, the seal weakening, which I found admittedly silly through and through, lacked any real umph. And it didn't seem to really change much either.

Honestly, while the Authorlord is great author and Team 8 is a fantastic read, I have more and more come to think that the time compression is one of the major issues with the story. The scope of the story is so great and the Authorlord covers so much that it, to me, feels disjointed sometimes.

But there is positive, obviously. I'm accentuating the negative, to a degree. It's a good chapter due to, again, the well done wham and development, but it's marred by a feeling of overstuffed and excessive time compression. That being said, I particularly enjoyed the Sasuke bits. I enjoy writing them, and reading well done ones is just as enjoyable, particularly as my vision of Sasuke has been formed by a combination of Team 8 and People Lie more than anything else. I am eager to see if, and if so then how, the story of Kurenai's former teammates will resolve itself now with her gone.

The story has also reminded me to make use of my 'personally arbitrated divergence points give me wider license then you think' card in my own work.

Edit:
Oh, and rereading the thread has reminded me. I must disagree with the assertion that Sasuke won't defect. I think, now more than ever, it will be particularly hard to say one way or the other. More on that later.

[unknown470]

WTF?!

Well Sasuke can forget about his "ambition". Team 8 is going to slaughter Itachi.

Great Chapter. I really wish I was rich so I could pay you to just write stories Viridian, but oh well(shrugs) you can't have everything in life.

[Aldraia Dragonsong]

I have to say, saddened as I am, that Kurenai's method for defeating Tsukuyomi was made of awesome.
It made the tragedy all the more shocking because I got whammed with it while still in "Squee! Awesome!" mode.

[tjchaos]

[Random_fan]

Well that's a shocker, but it had to happen. I can't really bring myself to be annoyed though, I think it's because how quick the death was, I mean Kurenai gets a CMOA and then, BAM, kunai to the head. Sasuke's thoughts were very interesting, though any time he's portrayed as more than an arrogant ass is refreshing, it got me interested in what's going to happen with Orochimaru.

[viridian]

To Nasdaq:

That's sort of a liability of the serial chapter release format - an issue as old (if not older than) Dickens. But it doesn't make you any less right.

Originally, I was going it end it after she was killed, with Sasuke and Shino leaving as the Denouement.
Bibliophile talked me out of it - and he's right, I'd likely be burned in effigy if I added any sort of cliffie to what happened...

[unknown249]

Hinata's big sister/mother figure died in the line of duty. One of the few beacons of hope in Hinata's life died, after the emotional death spiral she found herself in a little over a month earlier she found herself in rock bottom again.. On a plus side she won't be blaming herself. Her next transformation which will be after this (will take a few chapters) will be character defining. Fortunately she has friends at her side.

Still Shino displayed himself of an impressive character. He's definitely showing some chunin type leadership (strategic) capablity. Being able to put aside emotions like that and focus on an objective is very much needed right now on the team. Though I think his bugs are traumatized by being inside a giant toad for that jutsu.

In the next chapter I'm guessing the truth may come out that Kurenai, The Third and Jiraiya thought something like this might happen. Just not this soon. It would be quite slick for Jiraiya to move into Kurenai's billet. That could solve quite a few problems simultaneously, create a few new ones.

However where was dynamic entry? He didn't show up during the Konoha infiltration or in the inn. Oh right he's training with Lee.

[Phht]

Oh, I just had a great image. They track down Tsunade, and needless to say, Hinata and Naruto are not their normal, happy go lucky selves, and Tsunade starts teaching them how to drown their sorrows in sake and gambling.

Better yet, she ends up coming back to Konoha and ends up Team 8's new jounin-sensei. I mean, Sandaime clearly had his genin team while Hokage, so that's not an issue for Tsuande, should she end up the Hokage.

And that brings up an important issue. Who'll end up Team 8's jounin-sensei? The team is intact, so I doubt any attempts to break up the genin would work solely because their sensei died. Wouldn't be surprised if there were good attempts at trying that, but I doubt the Hokage would let such a thing slide. Kakashi still has a full team, as does Gai and Asuma. That eliminates the usual suspects. Jiraiya won't take on an entire genin team because it'd a) get in the way of his research, and b) might hamper intelligence gathering activities.

Hayate's a swordman, and unfortunately no aspiring kenjutsu users on the team. Anko seems to be good at tracking in canon, so she might be a valid choice for taking over a recon team. Don't know much about Genma. That pretty much covers the wider group of possibilities fanfics use.

And, of course, there's Shizune and Tsunade. Shizune is listed as a Jounin by leafninja as of databook 2 or 3. Her taijutsu is a little weak, but ninjutsu and genjutsu are good. This could be different due to T8verse changes, but still a decent measuring point. And Tsunade is, well, Tsunade. If she tells the Hokage that she wants command of the team, who would stop her? Maybe she doesn't want them to end up like her or something.

--

Yeah, I was "SQUEE AWESOME" and she died. Then I went into denials. She IS a genjutsu mistress, after all. It could've been an illusion, or a kawarimi, or a magnificently slipped in Kage Bunshin! Then the morgue scene confirmed her death, and I was just kinda numb for the rest of the chapter.

[datubaman]

[Nasdaq]

Of course. And again, like I said, it's my prerogative. Personally, I might have front loaded some scenes with Itachi and Kisame arriving, a bit more time on the road with the others, and and the battle sequence. Might have lengthened things out. But of course, concious choice not to also lengthened the wham. Likely could have done something with that, but I'm not sure what.

Still say the seal bit was wonky, but I hate giving the Kyuubi speaking roles in anything. I like him better as a cosmic horror, I guess.

But, most importantly, I enjoyed the chapter immensely, and am looking forward to the next one. And particularly how Hinata's mental health will suffer from this. And I'm almost certain it will.

[Nahmen]

Maybe not in effigy...takes a lot of time to set that sort of thing up properly. :D

While I agree with Nasdaq a bit about the pacing this time, I'd argue that even if it feels a tad rushed in places, that could be useful in getting us out of the Chuunin exams - which by necessity would take a lot of detail writing - and back into some more rapidly progressing plot.

Sasuke as a three dimensional character with a stick up his butt, but still not lame evil incarnate? What a concept. And as for Sasuke defecting...while it's still possible, with Sasuke running off to 'Random Village X' at this point, does Orochimaru even know where he is? Will Oro still show up to fight Ero-Senin and Tsunade-baachan? And what will Sasuke think of it if he's there to see it?

Kurunai is dead. Epic win. That scene channeled, to my mind, the perfect unholy lovechild of George Martin and Joss Whedon. Unceasing worship upon the abrupt, quasi-random but explicable destruction of a beloved, ostensibly plot-critical character.

I hope the vengeance arc that may (probably will) follow can be every bit as fun as Shikamaru's story after Asuma died. (I still get tingles thinking that Hidan is actually still alive down there...)