Team 8 Chapter 21 Discussion *SPOILERS ABOUND!*

[Tempest Kitsune]

For anyone who wishes to discuss the events within the newest chapter.

[utahjak]

I have to say, reading Kakashi and Asuma's 'conversation' with Hiashi at the end of the Chapter was incredibly satisfying.

Also, while I'm glad Team 8 isn't falling into the 'retread canon just because' trap, I was kind of disappointed that we didn't see the Sannin have their brawl and Team 8 fight Kabuto. It was still a great chapter though.

[Chuckg]

Let's see... Kakashi, Asuma, and if that nod he gave Neji means anything Gai, have all joined the 'If Hiashi doesn't back the fuck up some, we're going to pull off his limbs' parade.

A parade that is also likely to soon include two of the Sannin.

Life is good.

[Phht]

Curses, I was just working on a post to start a new thread for this in the hopes of getting it going while everyone was scrambling to read the chapter. You win this time, Tempest!

Next time, I won't put my reactions to the chapter in there before posting.

--

I'm a little disappointed that we don't know who is going to replace Kurenai as team leader, but this chapter helped cover part of the emotional fallout within her team from her loss, which we didn't see last chapter due to the placement of her death near the end of the chapter. And I'm okay with that. Though now I'm going to have to put my vote for Tsunade as their (at least temporary) team leader, since Hinata's working for her for six months.

The best part of this version of the arc is not what is "missing" (Rasengan, the bet on learning it, showdown with Orochimaru, etc), but what IS present. The way it flowed without being rushed, the actual sidestepping of any confrontation with Orochimaru and Kabuto at all, and the fact that Hinata got six more months away from her clan. The fight with Orochimaru would've been great if it occurred, I think, but didn't really fit in with this version of events. At least, at this point in the plot.

Massive props to Asuma and Kakashi threatening the Hyuuga clan head at the funeral to allow Team 8 to grieve as a team. I wouldn't be surprised if we see more ninja closing ranks to help protect Team 8 while they grieve (and keep an eye over them to make sure nothing... untoward occurs), especially given Naruto's efforts during the invasion and Jiraiya's thoughts on Naruto having worked with most/all members of ANBU.

[spudman]

They'll get through this together...

Really felt the emotional burdens the characters are carrying in this chapter. The news that Hinata will be away from her family for longer is good, though. Hopefully Tsunade will decide to stick around.

I wonder what Sarutobi said to Tsunade after the genin left.

Massive props to Asuma and Kakashi threatening

Heh, I think I said something a lot like this in my review. Must have borrowed from what you wrote here without thinking. Oops.

[datubaman]

nicely done! Ya know, I saw a side of Naruto that I have never seen before, a side that I have not encountered in any other fanfic. Thus, Naruto seems much more human because of it. Also good to see him show some restraint. Also, Kakashi and Asuma threatening Hiashi? Give me a C! Give me an M! Give me an O! Give me an A! What's that spell? CMOA!

[Phht]

Massive props to Asuma and Kakashi threatening

Heh, I think I said something a lot like this in my review. Must have borrowed from what you wrote here without thinking. Oops.

Looking, you do have something similar. Whether it was because you noticed it here and unconsciously used it or because awesome minds think alike (in some cases, otherwise there wouldn't be quite so much awesome being spread around), it doesn't matter. :D

Because, hey, they had the balls to threaten the Hyuuga Clan Head in public, just so grieving teammates can grieve together. And that's got to be acknowledged. Even if Kakashi was better at the whole subtlety thing.

[Tempest Kitsune]

Subtle is overrated when you can gut a man without him even seeing the blade.

I especially liked the bit where Naruto is dressing for the funeral, and he's considering the fact that this could very well have been the Third's funeral instead/as well. The emotions are almost palpable. And the insight that Hinata gained into her father's lack of reason behind his behavior may very well be some sort of vital clue to what's going on. Or I could be reading the situation totally wrong. Who knows?

[viridian]

Even if Kakashi was better at the whole subtlety thing.

The man's preferred weapons are a pair of trench knives. (Curved daggers with built in brass knuckles.) Subtlety is not on the table.

And considering how tobacco-deprived he is, that's still pretty restrained.

[Farmer_10]

The worst part of this chapter is that it ended. But it was nice. I liked the aversion of the standard canon-rehash where the only difference is that Naruto is more super special awesome this time and totally beats up Kabuto but he gets away anyway. I also found Jiraiya staying up all night with Naruto and talking it out to be a nice moment.

[Nitramy]

What's possibly frightening me right now is the thought that Hiashi might possibly be small fry in this whole conspiracy thing.

Here's to everyone getting stronger in the next few chapters... and as usual, unbelievably awesome work.

[Tempest Kitsune]

Speaking of getting stronger, who else wants to see Iruka get into a shouting match with Hiashi, which devolves into a challenge being thrown down by the Clan Head in order to get some second-hand payback against Naruto and his disobedient daughter? And then when the fight happens, it turns out that Kakashi may have already been sharing secrets? In other words, Hiashi's Byakugan is countered, and he gets his ass whooped. By a Chuunin.

[Farmer_10]

There's no way that-....but it wouldn't.....I can't come up with a good reason why that scene or something like it couldn't happen.

[XanderTarbert]

The only way to make it better would be having the shouting match start with Iruka respectfully asking Hiashi to pay up on the bets made during the Exam.

"Hiashi-sama, I have given you a considerable amount of time to seek me out to discharge the debt you owe me. After the funeral, however, I'm more inclined to take it from your hide. Pay up now, or I'll break your knee-caps."

"Fool, The Hyuga owe commoners nothing."

*shrugs* "Ok, you asked for it."

Very emotional chapter. A lot of things have caught up to the team. Both Naruto and Hinata have lost someone who became their mother. Shino lost the best example of how to be both intelligent and logical without sacrificing your emotions, but fortunately his family are a lot more supportive.

[Phht]

The man's preferred weapons are a pair of trench knives. (Curved daggers with built in brass knuckles.) Subtlety is not on the table.

And considering how tobacco-deprived he is, that's still pretty restrained.

I know, he was just working with what he had (and you can't really top Kakashi's threat). It's just amusing that we get Kakashi's "I happen to know some jutsu that can deal with doujutsu, like yours!, and I might give some of them to Iruka for teaching if you bother the genin" followed by "I'll just beat you up" from Asuma.



I also find Hiashi's definition of treason to be quite telling in this conversation.

[Wittgen]

Hopefully, really horrible stuff will happen to Naruto soon. Kurenai dying is a good first step, but the second act should be ending soonish, and Naruto's life is still totally awesome. Iruka getting assassinated by an infuriated conspiracy because of that property he won could work. It's probably not what's going to happen, but I hope some kind of obvious conflict arises. The initial conflict of Naruto vs. Naruto's innate suckitude at life has been pretty resolved, and I would hate to see this fic stall at the same murky plot area NoFP is at right now with a vague, unsatisfying "conspiracy" in the background and lots of mopping up being done by the heroes.

I enjoyed the chapter. I thought the grieving was handled pretty well even if Naruto and Hinata's moment felt quite reminiscent of a scene between Ginny and Harry in NoFP. Naruto taunting Tsunade and Shino getting his kikai bugs all up in her face were pretty cool moments too. I really hope Hinata doesn't become a medic-nin. The only line I remember being very impressed with was the one about not being roaring drunk, but definitely being talking louder than necessary drunk. That was funny and cleverly stated.

As always, many thanks for the enjoyable fiction, authorlord.

[eternaleye]

My only thought until about 30 seconds post-reading was, and I quote:

Kakashi, you magnificent Bastard! (In the BOFH sense)

I also would absolutely LOVE to see someone take the plot bunny of Iruka cleaning Hiashi's clock and run like the freakin' roadrunner with it.

Now let's see... Naruto now has Jiraiya as a mentor figure... Tsunade just hoodwinked herself into training Hinata... Ohpleaseohpleaseohpleaseohpleaseohplease let Shino get someone of a similar level of awesome to train him. In fact... though I have little idea who that could be, there *are* several possibilities for things he could learn that would be enormous force multipliers for him. One being even a basic level of Wind jutsu. Think about it - his bugs will no longer be scattered by the first tough gust, since he can do some manipulation of localized wind, he can use wind jutsu to distribute bugs in a targeted manner (say, using a small amount of wind chakra to shape a 'dart' around a female kikai that dissipates just before impact against a person), and those scythes would be a terrifyingly effective weapon with wind chakra sharpening the edges.

I say wind because the other options are bugzapper (lightning), bugroaster (fire), the-place-bugs-may-not-go (water), and earth, which *might* be useful for burrowing bugs under an opponent... which Shino can already do.

With regard to Naruto having now fought beside pretty much every ANBU, it is also worth noting that the ANBU were the ones assigned to making sure Naruto was mostly unharmed during his youth, so they were *already* probably neutral at worst. Getting some much-needed support from him probably was enough to get most of them to "Kid's got chops as well as balls, not bad," especially when you consider the reactions they must have had when they all got together after the invasion, and some guy starts talking about this crazy genin who dumped a bunch of clones on his opponent... stories get compared... and they realize a genin fielded enough combatants to represent a small village.

Realistic depiction of the expression of several ANBU at the time, done by one who practices painting in his spare time:

[Jaur]

Hmm...
So the new round of speculation and guesses starts of. As usual, Viridian will put us all to shame but that's part of the fun riht?
So here is my playing oracle...
There where two things I really took notice of in this chapters; first the Hinata situation. Her father is taking notice that he is loosing influence over her life at the same time as she becomes aprentice of the next Hokage (That is the logical way for the six months servitude to end up...) It can go several ways but I think it is leading up to an explosion...
It also leads to further changes; Team 8 has gotten some attention and, unlike team 7 in canon, there are strong reasons for not breaking them up. This might mean that Naruto won't leave with Jiraya, for Hinata´s sake if nothing else. It is even possible that Jiraya might stay in Konoha as their Jonin sensei, if not I'm at a loss for who might get chosen...
The secont thing is Sasuke. Small hints of his reactions that can still go either way, will Kakashis new training regimen be enough to keep him in Konoha or will he rush to get stronger with Oro-chan in face of the new competition for Itachis head?

Hmm... this chapter was the big first confrontation between Naruto and Akatsuki with Oro-chan waiting in the shadows and it was really anticlimatic after last, a lot of buildup and the fight as a small sideshow. Masterful!

[U2P]

The secont thing is Sasuke. Small hints of his reactions that can still go either way, will Kakashis new training regimen be enough to keep him in Konoha or will he rush to get stronger with Oro-chan in face of the new competition for Itachis head?

Personally I think it's nice to have a variant of Sasuke beyond the endless bashing fics wherein all he does is whine to the council and throw insults, and has apparently lost the ability to see things objectively. This Sasuke is in a much better place mentally (imo) than cannon Sasuke ever was. I think it'd be interesting to see him and Team 8 get a little closer than they are now, not buddy buddy of course, but more out of a sense of training together to kill Itachi. I'm not sure entirely how it'd work, but it's something I'd like to see. From the Authorlords short "Naruto’s Ultimate Technique" it seems like something that could in fact be done, but again only the Authorlord could make such a call.

Also I am glad that something beyond the usual Super Mega Awesome ninja fight happened, as it showcases the whole point of an Au. Different stuff happened at the start so it's not all going to be the same ripples in a pond and all that.

I worry a little more about Naruto now though in case something happens to either of his teammates. He might come back from losing Shino, but I'm fairly sure both Naruto, and Shino would go on a warpath if something happened to their other teammate.

It would also be interesting to see Jiraya take a more active interest in his godson's training/life since this Naruto wouldn't put up with him conducting research when they're supposed to be training, he's far to driven after his teachers death to waste time.

Like someone else mentioned Hiashi's definition of treasonous was very telling, and Kakashi had a wonderful CMOA as well. Keep up the good work!

On a side note I think that if ever there was a need for a piece of fanart for this story a picture of Team 8 in the group hug at the funeral during the rain was it. Someone with greater drawing skills than I needs to make that happen now!

[Jasruv]

I like how the fight with Tsunade went. His mission isn't to beat up Tsunade, its to get her to come back to Konoha and he uses what he knows to accomplish that.

I also think that Hiashi is going to be in danger of choking to death due to his feet being shoved into his mouth up to his hips. Possibly literaly once Tsunade has a chance to get to know her new assistant.

He may have also volunteered his clan to be an example of what overstepping the bounds of acceptable arrogance will get you, even for a powerful shinobi clan in a ninja village.

[Minion]

"I don't have anything half so elegant," Asuma added. "I'll just kick your ass if you take one step towards those kids."


Best line ever.

Hm. Saying Sarutobi's career as a shinobi is over, that makes me wonder if he's not eligible to become Team 8's new sensei.

[Gartekal]

Once again I am left elated and tearing for more.

I just had a thought that could spell bad news for the village in the future. Tsunade never had the opportunity to overcome her hemophobia in this version of events. That may come back to bite them later...

[OhJohnNo]

Nice chapter. Seeing Hiashi taken down a notch like that was awesome - I'm just fearful of what will happen to Hinata afterwards. The poor girl might even get a beating - but if that happens, I wonder if Hiashi will get one from Tsunade...

[Ruby Moon]

Great chapter. I rather liked how Team 8 and Jiraiya got Tsunade without rehashing canon into a more grandiose, badass, over-the-top ninja battle. And now Tsunade is back, and has a servant in Hinata...

Tenten will absolutely be thrilled to see her idol in person, and maybe even tag along with Hinata just to meet Tsunade. On the other hand, Tsunade is going to see just how different Hinata is from the rest of the Hyuuga Clan, and I have a feeling she'll be less than brutally frank about her opinion of the rest of them. Tsunade isn't just a medical specialist, but one of the best ninja out there, and she'll realize that her "servant" is an abused child.

But rather than directly accusing anyone, she can quote the saying "There are two kinds of evil in this world. Those who commit it, and those who see it happening and do nothing."

Wonder what Tenten and Lee would think about their teammate then.

[Tempest Kitsune]

Considering his situation, and the fact that until very recently, he had a) a pathological hatred for Hinata as the root cause of his father being dead, and b) a friggen seal on his head that would ensure that he treated Hinata no better than everyone else (something that I'm starting to think Hiashi might have actually enforced) I don't think their opinion of him will change all that much. He was a horrendous douche, but he's trying to make up for it in the only ways he can without drawing the attention, and ire, of Hiashi and any other members of the clan who also dumped on Hinata.