Team 8 - Chapter 22 Discussion Thread

[Dechstreme]

And how would Hinata being mistaken for a farmer's daughter be foreshadowing?

[Wraith5]

I've seen an author go as far as using two words in a conversation as the only foreshadowing for the names of two OMSs (Original Mobile Suits) in a Gundam fic. Maybe I'm just being a bit paranoid. *shrug*
Plus, like I said, "this is all speculation already, right?"

[Psyicman]

Now that Naruto knows from Kurenai that Hinata loves him and her plea to protect her do you see him leaving for his training trip for the 2.5 years? Because I don't see it unless she goes with him.

[Psyicman]

I have been lurking on these boards for a while now but I wanted to just chime in with a thought I had. Do you think that Naruto will be willing to go on the training trip with Jiraiya? Because I don't think he will willingly. With the discovery of Kurenai's secret letter telling him of the conspiracy, Hinata loving him, and her home situation. I think he would only leave if Hinata went with them.

[Dechstreme]

That's up in the air at the moment. Frankly, at times no one knows what Viridian will do until he does it, but there is the possibility that Naruto wouldn't want her out of his sight for more than like three DAYS.

[Wraith5]

I don't really think there's going to be the full-length 2.5 year long trip. I mean, he is going on a 6 month long one, while Hinata is serving a 6 month long 'apprentice-ship.' If there's going to be a longer training trip, I think it's more likely Tsunade will send Hinata along to provide medical support (I mean, remember what Naruto did to Jiraiya in canon?). I have the feeling Hinata's going to become pretty damn good at medical jutsu in just 6 months. Plus, I think Tsunade would send her along just because it would really irritate Hiashi (at best), not to mention, it would probably help Hinata with the confidence issue.

[DBExplorer]

because it would really irritate Hiashi (at best),

Thats a good reason to do ANYTHING!

It irritated Hiashi.

[Dechstreme]

I heartily concur. Plus, the less time she spends with her father, the more her father's influence on her wanes. She's already started rebelling in a sense against the Hyuuga. More time away from them will be detrimental for them. Beneficial for Hinata, though.

[Wraith5]

I can't wait until Hinata reaches the point where she can finally:
A) Say "no" or talk back to her father.
B) Beat her father in a sparring match.
C) Both A and B (preferred option). Even better if she completely DESTROYS him by launching her wrist/ankle weights at him. If he says something about cheap tricks, she just laughs at him and says something along the lines of "We are ninja. Ninja do NOT fight fair."

[Zankaru Zelladonii]

I can see hinata reaching the point of backtalk, but beating hiashi in a sparring match? Maybe she can in a few years. Hiashi is an 50 year old jounin who lived through wars, and is a clan head of konoha. He looks down on 'tricks', meaning we can assume he has survived to his age with his skills of gentle fist and basic ninja arts alone. He also will never go easy on her during a spar, to the point of causing actual injury as we saw early on.

While it might give us a bit of pleasure to see hinata beat him down, she has a long, long way to go first.

[Wraith5]

That is true, but if was 'supervised' by the Hokage, I don't think he could get away with causing more than just a few bruises. Besides, we've had Naruto go from being a sub-par academy student to a mid-chunin (at least?) level genin. And Hinata has been training just as hard as he has... and that was all with Naruto, Gai, and Kurenai. Now imagine what level of training TSUNADE would put her through.
Actually, on the subject of training... Hinata has always had excellent chakra control, right? Imagine how scary Jyuuken would be combined with Tsunade's strength technique... I bet that would at least throw Hiashi for a loop.

[jgkitarel]

The problem here is that Hinata would have to get very lucky, or Hiashi holding the idiot ball with an iron grip. Experience tends to trump raw skill, though skill can narrow that divide pretty far.

[Wraith5]

But don't forget, they are ninja. Ninja cheat (well, ninja not obsessed with 'honor,' 'purity,' and the like do). Would be hilarious to have Hinata pull a trick on Hiashi like the "seeing what you want to see" thing Naruto used on Neji though.

[MrRigger2]

Hinata has a huge way to go before she has a chance to beat Hiashi. He's not held onto his position the way he has by being weak. He's the Head of the Hyuuga Clan, and apart from maybe one or two Old Masters, the undisputed master of Jyuuken in the clan.

As for not being able to get away with hurting her during a sparring match supervised by the Hokage, remember that Tsunade is a harsh taskmaster and a can't afford to show weakness in front of political rivals. As a member of his clan, Hiashi could probably get away with anything short of purposeful murder or crippling. And then as long as Hinata's conscious at the end, I can see Tsunade making Hinata heal her own wounds to the best of her ability. Ninja not being nice works both ways.

Seeing Hinata being able to pull off a trick or two against Hiashi would be nice, but I'd then like to see Hiashi counter it pretty much effortlessly the next time she tried it, because after all, he's a jounin and Head of the clan.

Frankly, Hinata has a better chance at beating Hiashi politically than she does in a physical fight.

MrRigger

[Wraith5]

Well, that is true... but you also have to take into account how shocked Hiashi would be to see an obviously skilled and confident Hinata, right? You can't forget about the psychological side of things.

As for other options, a Hinata vs. Neji rematch probably wouldn't be significant enough to Hiashi, considering the fact that Naruto (Mr. "Dead Last") beat Neji (previous rookie of the year) without 'help' from the Kyuubi. (Then again, I could be wrong, considering how Naruto's chakra capacity is on its own level...) Also, Neji doesn't have the CBS any longer. Hiashi obviously won't trust Neji to fulfill any roles he assigns if he can't force him to. If Hinata just beat Hanabi in a sparring match, I think Hiashi would just interpret that more like "Oh, you're finally reaching average. About damn time." (And that's all the people in the T8-verse Hyuuga clan I know of. Well, other than some nameless branch members... but they don't really count. They don't have names or personalities.)

As far as people outside of the Hyuuga clan she could fight, I'm not really sure Hiashi respects ANYONE enough to believe their assessment of Hinata. Especially the Sandaime, Tsunade, Kakashi, Asuma, et al. (I actually don't think he really 'respects' Danzo either. I think that alliance (not sure if that's the best term...) is more based off pragmatism. Each is using the other for their influence or 'power.' I mean, let's be honest. They appear to be in agreement on something, but do either really have the kind of personality to trust the other? Doesn't look that way to me.)

On a slightly related note, I can't wait for Hiashi's 'conversation' with Tsunade about Hinata's skill to come back and bite him in the ass. Come on, we all know it's going to happen eventually. I just hope it all happens in such a way that it completely destroys Hiashi's worldview. Hmm... I wonder how much faster Hinata learns medical jutsu compared to everyone else who's going to take the program...

BTW: As the thread title says, this is all just speculation. I just like to speculate wildly. I just LOVE having ADHD.

[jgkitarel]

I actually see her eventually calling Hiashi out for his conduct as not only unbefitting of a shinobi, but as a clan head, and she will likely do so publicly, right before she tears down his illusion of superiority by pointing out just how easily some factions manipulated him to their own ends. Keep in mind that the same people he is aligned with have learned from watching two Hokage in action and had long been proficient at political meddling when he was in diapers. It would make for an awesome "The Reason You Suck" speech.

Taking someone as visibly prominent as Hiashi down a few pegs would also serve as a warning to the others.


As for Hinata demonstrating actual skill, it might surprise him, but it won't be the crippling effect of surprise that many would expect. Unless Hinata got to the point where she could simply overpower him regardless of what he did, her chances are slim.

[Psyicman]

I think that the 3rd is also going to be a powerful ally to Naruto. As soon as he is recovered enough and he has the ability to move around a lot more he can get into the consperisy on the ground floor so to speak. He can listen in and spy on some of the councel members and do any number of ninja tricks to get to the heart of the problem and correct some of the mistakes he made with Naruto growing up. I can not see him sitting around enjoying his retierment beyond just having more time with his family. I don't see him as the kind of person to just sit idily by while his village is rotting from the inside.

[Phht]

So what happens if it gets revealed that Hiashi is actually part of Root?

Something I think people are overlooking regarding Hiashi vs Hinata is the mednin/apprentice training with Tsunade. The Tsunade that became very well known during the Second Great Shinobi War for countering the poisons that Suna used over the course of the war. I don't think it'd be a stretch to say that Hinata would likely be very knowledgeable regarding poisons after enough time training with her. After all, there might be poisons where the antidote could be a poison itself (and serves to counter the original poison), or poisons where the wrong antidote makes the poison worse, or poisons where it acts like one poison until that poison's antidote is added, thus acting as a two-part set-up, and so forth. So being able to identify symptoms of a specific poison, then identify how it got in (if necessary), etc would be a big part of the training.

Which means that once she's trained enough, Hiashi should be careful to never let her cook a meal for the family. Just in case, you know?




Especially if the ninja world knows about food allergies. I'm sure if Hiashi has any food allergies, they'd be in his medical file where an apprentice to Tsunade might see while performing tasks for her master. An apprentice that might know how to mix in the foods involved in such a way as to mask their apperance/taste....

[Wraith5]

Which means that once she's trained enough, Hiashi should be careful to never let her cook a meal for the family. Just in case, you know?




Especially if the ninja world knows about food allergies. I'm sure if Hiashi has any food allergies, they'd be in his medical file where an apprentice to Tsunade might see while performing tasks for her master. An apprentice that might know how to mix in the foods involved in such a way as to mask their apperance/taste....

:O_O:Oh dear god... let's just hope the whole scene where Kurenai was thinking about the one girl who poisoned herself and her father wasn't some sort of partial foreshadowing... Considering Kurenai already showed Hinata how much she matters to her team, I don't think Hinata would go for the murder-suicide approach, at least.
Also, I am very glad that I am not allergic to any foods (AFAIK)...

[Phht]

It's not necessarily a murder-suicide approach.

Poisons: She could have built up an immunity to the poison, or have the antidote mixed in to food she eats that her father doesn't (or in her drink).

Allergies: Allergies are not necessarily passed on to children, or the same severity/type as the parent. My dad is allergic to mushrooms, shellfish, and I think a certain type of fish (food-wise; he also has some mild pollen allergies). But my dad is allergic enough that having it mixed in to the food (such as mushrooms in a premixed package) can get him sick, even if the mushrooms were picked out before cooking. Same is true with shared utensils or frying oil or cooking space. Like those Japanese restaurants that cook your food table-side? Shared utensils or grill space there can get him sick if it's cooked/prepared before his food. My sister and I have none of those food allergies (or at least I didn't last time I had any of those foods, and I haven't heard otherwise regarding her).

So she could put the allergy death mix (if his allergy is bad enough, or the mix hits hard enough) into all the food if she shares no allergies with him. Or she could keep the allergic food to stuff she doesn't normally eat, so she won't be eating it in the first place. If her allergic reaction is mild enough, she might be able to use medic jutsu to deal with it internally and show no sign of being affected. Or she might have some medicine on hand to use to stop the reaction (like an epi-pen). Same can be generally said for poison use.

[Wraith5]

Uhh... by "partial foreshadowing" I just meant Hinata cooks a meal to poison her father... Also, my older sister is allergic to peanuts and so on. I'm not. Something I am very happy about. Oh, and she's the only member of my family with any food allergies. Then my mom, older sister, and the older of my two younger brothers are allergic to cats. (Not allergic enough to get violent reactions, just mild irritation.)

[doc.exe]

Mmmm… You know, as amusing and cathartic as it is to imagine it, all this talk about Hinata beating down (if not murdering) her father is starting to get a bit disturbing. Is not that Hiashi doesn’t deserve a good beating, but it feels kind of jarring considering how Hinata is so kind and compassionate to a fault.

…On the other hand, if Hiashi keeps screwing with Naruto’s life and puts him in mortal danger (like in Snapped), I can certainly see Hinata going ballistic on him.

[Wraith5]

Well, I actually was thinking more along the lines of a general "Hinata FORCES Hiashi to see her actual worth," not "Hinata beats up Hiashi."
(Although, considering Hiashi's view of relative skill levels, beating him up is probably the most direct way to reach that end result.)
And if Hinata works out some equivalent to the Shugohakke Rokujūyon Shō ( Protection of the Eight Trigrams Sixty-Four Palms), well... Hiashi would probably have a hard time out-lasting her in an 'ultimate defense vs. ultimate defense' fight. (I'm just guessing that the Kaiten has a MUCH higher rate of chakra use over equal time periods.)

[Psyicman]

I don't see Hinata doing anything to catch her fathers attention any time soon. She knows about the possible involvement her father has with what is going on in the background with Naruto. And that's just icing on the cake to the abuse he puts her through. Once her six months are done and she has to go back home I think she will try and stay away from her father. Although I can guess he will want to see a demonstration of her new skills. I can also see him commenting on how un-Hyuuga like it is for a main branch member to have those skills. I am really looking forward to the next chapter. I want to know so much of what is going on in the background so badly.

[Greatlimmick]

After all, there might be poisons where the antidote could be a poison itself (and serves to counter the original poison)

From what I've heard, that's how most types of nerve gas and snake venom work. (As far as nerve gas goes, I'm pretty sure you'll still get messed up even if you get the antidote, just not nearly as much as either one by itself.)

Personally, I've been thinking about what Hinata could do using Jyuuken forms with chakra scalpels. Alternatively, since she's already started learning goken from Gai, there's always Tsunade's strength boost.