Plot Bunnies to a good home (May be rabid)

Re: Plot Bunnies to a good home (May be rabid)

Unread postby Phht » October 26th, 2014, 1:56 am

Somewhat random thought I had some days ago... but what would happen if Fleur had taken the cup? You know, her blood gets used for the ritual, etc. Would the result be fem!Voldemort? Veela!fem!Voldemort? Magical-slave!Veela!fem!Voldemort due to magic protections in the veela blood? If Harry let Fleur take the cup and win the tournament, would a magical-slave!veela!fem!Voldemort result satisfy the "at the hand of the other" part of the prophecy? More importantly though, would veela!fem!Voldemort changes flow through the Dark Mark and gender swap all male Death Eaters?

--

On a completely different topic, I pondered how one could cross XCOM and MCU with minimal timeline/canon changes. The reason for this is that I figure the planet needs to cover three areas of planetary defense - mundane threats (terrorist/criminal groups), not-mundane threats (supernatural), and extraterrestrial - and have organizations that focus on each area specifically. First problem that popped up came from MCU, since as we see from Thor/Avengers/Thor 2 that they consider themselves to be handling extraterrestrial defense. I doubt Fury would allow XCOM to form as a separate organization under UN authority.
Spoiler: show
Note - I do not consider the MCU SHIELD's "World Security Council" to be the UN Security Council, but more like SEELE in public transparency. XCOM as I see it has a UN charter that allows them to ignore every law, treaty, resolution, convention, ban, etc that exists on Earth, but only in their jurisdictional area of extraterrestrial defense and they report directly to the UN Security Council (the Council in the games). There is a section regarding XCOM's ability to defend itself from terrestrial threats, commonly generalized as the "self defense clause(s)", which allows them to extend their jurisdictional area temporarily in order to deal with threats to the organization of a mundane nature. EXALT from Enemy Within would be an example of the self defense clause kicking in. They have to justify their reasons/actions for normal operations if the Council calls them on it (this would likely only happen with extreme actions, like nuking a populated city to deal with an alien invasion), and generally the Commander notifies the UNSC that they're activating the self defense clauses and why before they start acting.
After much jiggling of timelines around trying to find a way to make it work, I had an epiphany. When does CA2 take place? Early 2014. When does XCOM:EU start? Early 2014? Is there any better sign of perfect crossover options than that? It allows XCOM time to step in and be Big Damn Heroes versus the alien threat while SHIELD's busy, and will have them firmly entrenched as an organization by the time SHIELD might want to make a fuss over ET defense jurisdiction.

For those wondering about the supernatural side of things, take my Nanoha/XCOM idea from long ago, and spin off Nanoha and co once they're experienced enough members of XCOM. I want to call them SWORD for some reason.

Now, imagine Avengers + Nanoha + Wolkenritter + XCOM forces on a joint mission. :3
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Re: Plot Bunnies to a good home (May be rabid)

Unread postby TraceReading » October 27th, 2014, 7:08 pm

*Ponders the possibility of Vault-Tec actually being part of an alien conspiracy. The strange conditions, the unusual orders, the sometimes-intentional mistakes regarding essential supplies, the total lack of concern for the fact that the experiments' beginnings coincided with the outbreak of nuclear war...*
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Re: Plot Bunnies to a good home (May be rabid)

Unread postby jgkitarel » November 6th, 2014, 4:07 pm

*Considered after not enough sleep while playing Mass Effect and recently watching MGLN.*

While this is not well thought out, the sheer idea had me laughing to myself (or was it at myself? hmmm).

Due to the cliché, randomly contrived coincidence, or just sheer stupid plot reason....

Nanoha Takamachi teamed up with Blasto, the Hanar Spectre. They fight crime and capture criminals. In the name of justice, badassery and befriending.
Also, I have to punch you, jgkitarel, because I spent a lot of time on the nanoha wiki trying to locate information on mages being trained due to being above a certain rank, only to remember and confirm that you were the one that came up with that. - Phht
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Re: Plot Bunnies to a good home (May be rabid)

Unread postby Wraith5 » November 6th, 2014, 7:01 pm

Nanoha Takamachi teamed up with Blasto, the Hanar Spectre. They fight crime and capture criminals. In the name of justice, badassery and befriending.
Okay, I just went all the way from just saying "Oh, dear god..." to *facepalm* to *headdesk*. AT THE SAME TIME.
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Re: Plot Bunnies to a good home (May be rabid)

Unread postby Phht » November 7th, 2014, 12:46 am

Magical Hanar Lyrical Blasto.

--

I had a random idea of the whole story of the lone <insert ever increasingly powerful unit> standing between Horus and the Emperor is a complete lie, because no one in the Imperium wants the truth known (as it could undercut the government somehow?) and it's too embarrassing for Chaos. Namely, big sister Nanoha has to discipline her little brother Horus and bounces his power armored ass across the bridge with impunity until the Emperor calls his (adopted) daughter off, not wanting her to be the one with the burden of killing Horus. So she vows to the Chaos gods to gather up her sisters and go on a crusade to hunt down those gods and so horrifically humiliatingly defeat them in battle that they end their own existences to get away from the shame.

This naturally explains why no one knows the Emperor had any "daughters" AND why Chaos has never really managed the success they had during the Heresy. The Chaos gods were distracted keeping Nanoha & co from finding a way to them. ;-)
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Re: Plot Bunnies to a good home (May be rabid)

Unread postby jgkitarel » November 8th, 2014, 12:13 am

Well, now we know why the 13th Black Crusade went tits up, even though Abbadon had managed to break open the Cadian Gate. In unrelated news, the Eldar claim that Eldrad Ulthran so totally had nothing to do with that, honest!

It would also explain why Creed is so successful as well. He was trained in battle tactics by none other than Nanoha.

Of course, with the Cadian Gate now breached and a nice path opened into the Eye of Terror....

Also, Lord Inquisitor Yuuno Scrya was recently seen in the area.
Also, I have to punch you, jgkitarel, because I spent a lot of time on the nanoha wiki trying to locate information on mages being trained due to being above a certain rank, only to remember and confirm that you were the one that came up with that. - Phht
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Re: Plot Bunnies to a good home (May be rabid)

Unread postby Phht » November 8th, 2014, 6:19 am

I pondered the question of "What the hell is TSAB doing?" regarding the series. I've ended up with two theories. Well, three, but the third combines the first two.
Spoiler: show
Theory 1, which is kinda less interesting but fairly plausible, is that soon-ish after the first three chaos gods became sentient, it turned the Warp from the calm dimensional space TSAB ships travel through into the Warp as it was prior to the Fall of the Eldar. Cue Age of Strife-esque meltdown of TSAB space, and all contact lost.

Theory 2, which is more interesting but requires TSAB to actually be mostly located in another galaxy (or galaxies), is Tyranids. Either they ended up wiping out TSAB space, or chunks of TSAB space ended up hiding themselves away in dimensional bubbles/barriers.

Possibly combine both theories, with perhaps the Chaos Gods deliberately causing Warp Storms to trap TSAB in their own galaxy while directing (or lucking in on) tyranid forces to that galaxy for food. This could be the reason we don't see any signs of Tyranids until M41 in the Milky Way. TSAB space ran afoul of the bulk of the Tyranids, whether it's a pile of Hive fleets arriving in a short span or a previously unknown 'home world' fleet of sorts.
On the subject of "How is Nanoha & co alive 27ish or more millennium later", I came to the simple conclusion. Blame the Book of Darkness.
Spoiler: show
The magics involved with it resulted in Nanoha/Fate/Hayate's aging slowing down significantly, starting ~10-15 years after the incident occurred. After they end up separated from TSAB, they explore their own galaxy off and on, more so as they see others aging while they aren't. Eventually they encounter the future Emperor, who gives them a home to stay when they aren't exploring and comes to be like a father to them.

I figure that they mostly stick around Terra helping keep things running while their adopted Father takes jaunts across the galaxy to recover Primarchs. One way to keep them entirely out of the way is to imply they were involved in whatever resulted in the removal of two legions/primarchs. If Nanoha killed one of the two Primarchs in self-defense, I kinda think she'd not handle it well afterward. It's one thing to eventually accept the necessity of killing others in defense and the like, but killing a sibling? Thus she ends up in a stasis field-ish set-up with the others, where they have something along the lines of a telepathic link with her, helping her to cope with what happened (possibly also helping her heal, if he managed to land a blow before she realized the need for her barrier jacket?). One or two of them might leave the link/field to check on the Emperor and the state of the galaxy every now and then.
Linker Cores and Nanoha's Power Level
Spoiler: show
Let's just get the power level thing out of the way. At age 9, Nanoha was AAA-rank. At age 19 (StrikerS), she was S+ (Air) (and, mind you, that's S+ (Air) after her near death experience). Now, given that, try to extrapolate her growth over 27,000 years of living/combat/training. Likewise, consider that Hayate is S-rank in A's and SS-rank during StrikerS. Tack on 27,000 years.... The idea of Nanoha smacking around the greatest of the Primarchs -- while the guy is being empowered by all four Chaos Gods -- suddenly starts looking less crazy.

Linker Cores are internal to a mage, which means that calling on mana via the Cores does not touch the Warp. This means that of all the "magic" and "sorcery" of the galaxy, mages are the only ones that are not at risk from dangers of the Warp simply from using their magic. Flipside, they probably need to be careful how much they turn off their power limiters based on their actual power levels, as warping time/space could result in rips connecting to the Warp?
A thorn in the side of Chaos for thousands of years...
Spoiler: show
Nanoha, Fate, Hayate, Wolkenritter (Zafira is not female... he's the family pet ;-) )
Leman Russ (last seen disappearing into the Eye of Terror)
Corvus Corax (last seen heading for the Eye of Terror)
2 Space Marine Chapters from the Abyssal Crusade (out of 30 chapters, 27 were destroyed or turned to Chaos, 1 returned to the Imperium after a few hundred years, and 2 are "fate unknown"... well, we might have an idea now~)

Possibly Vulkan (disappeared post-Heresy, fate unknown?)
Though if we want to screw around with history...
Spoiler: show
What are the odds that Shamal pays Magnus a visit before the Heresy kicks off... and prevents him from trying to warn the Emperor via sorcery?

Or that a daughter of the Emperor would happen to be on some planet called San Leor checking on an Imperial Cult when a miles long procession comes up to the Cult's doors?

Or instead, they accompany a Custodes team to have a word with a certain High Lord, and decide that if the women guarding him think they're worthy of being daughters of the Emperor (...once they're disabused of the notion that they're in any way worthy of being His brides), well, it should be up to His daughters to confirm that, rather than allowing the group to become religious enforcers in the reorganization afterward.
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Re: Plot Bunnies to a good home (May be rabid)

Unread postby jgkitarel » November 11th, 2014, 12:49 am

Nanoha Takamachi teamed up with Blasto, the Hanar Spectre. They fight crime and capture criminals. In the name of justice, badassery and befriending.
Okay, I just went all the way from just saying "Oh, dear god..." to *facepalm* to *headdesk*. AT THE SAME TIME.
Just imagine the Council's reaction. :halo

At least I didn't add in people like Naurto, Kamina, Ranma Saotome and Tenchi Masaki, with all their hangers on. Hmm.... perhaps we should blame them all coming together on Washu.
Also, I have to punch you, jgkitarel, because I spent a lot of time on the nanoha wiki trying to locate information on mages being trained due to being above a certain rank, only to remember and confirm that you were the one that came up with that. - Phht
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Re: Plot Bunnies to a good home (May be rabid)

Unread postby Wraith5 » November 11th, 2014, 10:25 am

Just imagine the Council's reaction. :halo

At least I didn't add in people like Naurto, Kamina, Ranma Saotome and Tenchi Masaki, with all their hangers on. Hmm.... perhaps we should blame them all coming together on Washu.
Well, first off, if I'm interpreting the game correctly, Blasto was just a fictional Spectre, purely created for the 'movies' he was in.

Second, *faceplant*
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Re: Plot Bunnies to a good home (May be rabid)

Unread postby MEKristian » November 11th, 2014, 9:41 pm

Two FSN based ideas:

The Tale of Rider and Saber going from "uneasy allies on the same side" to "something resembling friendship" over the course of mealtime conversations.

And, something that's been done a lot, but not in this format: one-shot concepts swapping Masters and Servants.
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Re: Plot Bunnies to a good home (May be rabid)

Unread postby TraceReading » November 13th, 2014, 8:02 pm

Loki + Sheogorath = ?
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Re: Plot Bunnies to a good home (May be rabid)

Unread postby MEKristian » November 26th, 2014, 12:23 am

So... how difficult is it to add mecha to the setting of Girls und Panzer?
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Re: Plot Bunnies to a good home (May be rabid)

Unread postby TraceReading » November 27th, 2014, 9:05 pm

What if the Veil of Death actually led to Xen?

To clarify: they didn't always have portkeys and apparation (I could say that the former's only been around for 500 years and the latter for maybe 200), but they still needed to get to other places in a hurry. The floo had been around for centuries already but it was limited in scope, as in you could only go to specific locations and it always had to be a fireplace. So some wizards got together and tried to figure out how to make a floo that took you wherever you wanted instead of to a linked location...and accidentally made a doorway to Xen. Since they could hear the whispers of the Nihilanth's many minds (and nothing they sent through ever came back) they assumed it was a doorway to death instead, and shoved it underground for study and the occasional execution. Which considering the way Xen behaves probably did kill more than a few people...but that's besides the point.

Fast forward to Sirius.
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Re: Plot Bunnies to a good home (May be rabid)

Unread postby MEKristian » December 15th, 2014, 9:23 pm

Okay, I've brought this up here before, but I'm gonna take the time to try and elaborate on it a bit:

To put it plainly, the Wizarding World has the cultural diversity of... uh... well... let's just say it's pretty low. And by that I don't mean races, since we see that Wizards exist globally, it's more in that everyone seems to approach magic in the same wands-and-brooms kind of way.

For example, let's analyze the what the wikia has to say about Japan. "Mahoutokoro"? "The Tsunami"? Doesn't that seem... odd to anyone else?

Now, I cannot lay any blame on Mrs. Rowling; this kind of world building was never a priority for her over crafting the characters and story that are important, and she does actually manage to hit things like the Kappa, and the legend of the Cherry Tree (albeit most likely unintentionally). So getting every single region's mythology perfect wasn't gonna happen with such limitations.

But the fandom isn't bound by those limits.

So, why not try and fill-in those gaps and "errors" that were made? Weave together the mythology of other cultures with what's presented in the books and expanded materials? But no magi-tech American BAMFs, 'kay? I think everyone's had enough of those for a lifetime.

And, if you're looking for a story-driven reason for it... have Luna Lovegood go on hunts to find creature X and learn about the native cultures that way.

*shrugs*
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Re: Plot Bunnies to a good home (May be rabid)

Unread postby jgkitarel » December 16th, 2014, 2:56 pm

The magi-tech American BAMFs are fun, but really, the furthest along I would imagine them is still developing the theoretical background for it, with some actual limited research and production.

Spoiler'd for length.
Spoiler: show
Serious and economically viable magi-tech would still be years or decades away for them, considering that they likely only really started coining onto that idea in the 1950s and 60s, when the bulk of US Nuclear testing was done. OTOH, Trinity would have been one hell of a wakeup call for them.

There's decades of actual research, like figuring out just WHY modern electronics go *bzzzt* around magic. Is it EMP? Is it due to muggle developments like the integrated circuit? Is it magnetic field related? Is it something else? There's a hell of a lot of catching up they would have to do with non-magical science while also building a theoretical knowledgebase of their own.

And if have figured it out. What limitations would it have? Is the equipment more expensive than its mundane counterpart? Is it bulkier? Is it less efficient? Is it simply less cost effective than the non-magical counterpart? Or is it the simple fact that they have to build it from the ground up and can't simply go with off-the-shelf muggle stuff? (Solving that last one would fix all the other problems to some degree or another).

Or suppose they have the capability, but outside of research and development, most would simply go with what is available in the muggle world, simply working around the current limitation of muggle electronics and magic.

Of course, we need to answer one question about their even doing this. Why?
Also, I have to punch you, jgkitarel, because I spent a lot of time on the nanoha wiki trying to locate information on mages being trained due to being above a certain rank, only to remember and confirm that you were the one that came up with that. - Phht
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Re: Plot Bunnies to a good home (May be rabid)

Unread postby Phht » December 16th, 2014, 11:25 pm

Well, if this kicks off in the 1950s or 1960s, then patriotism might be a reason. Or survival instinct. Nuclear weapons are incredibly destructive, and the systems for deploying them heavily rely on electronics. So part of it could be figuring out why electronics seem to die around certain levels of magic, in order to come up with a way to exploit that to defend their home. At the same time, they could realize that others might try to do the same to them, and so researching defenses for electronics could start as well. Heck, you might even have DARPA funding for it (or whatever their predecessor was, if necessary).

But the thing that sprang to my mind as a possible goal for figuring out electronics and magic co-existence? Think TSAB devices and related tech. Use science, math, and magic to be able to do away with carrying around fragile wands altogether. Sure, it'd probably take quite a while to miniaturize things enough for that result, but it'd probably be worth it.

--

Though on the topic of fragile wands... why does Japan have wand-waving magical natives anyhow? Do they also only learn how to cast magic using pseudo-Latin incantations? I dunno, maybe there's a cultural thing where magic wands makes sense other than for Mahou Shoujo genres, but I kinda scratch my head at that. Well, that and Japan apparently being one of the first countries to pick up Quidditch (in its area? in the world? I'm not clear on that). I guess Western cultural domination was much more successful among magicals than non-magicals in Japan.
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Re: Plot Bunnies to a good home (May be rabid)

Unread postby MEKristian » December 17th, 2014, 12:40 am

Though on the topic of fragile wands... why does Japan have wand-waving magical natives anyhow? Do they also only learn how to cast magic using pseudo-Latin incantations? I dunno, maybe there's a cultural thing where magic wands makes sense other than for Mahou Shoujo genres, but I kinda scratch my head at that. Well, that and Japan apparently being one of the first countries to pick up Quidditch (in its area? in the world? I'm not clear on that). I guess Western cultural domination was much more successful among magicals than non-magicals in Japan.
Yeah, that's why I brought up Japan specifically; the Wand-style is a western thing co-opted for many Magical Girls... while Japan has it's own magic system in Onmyodo and things like Youkai. Plus their whole isolationist and frankly Xenophobic attitudes towards "Westerners".

So I can't help but feel that things could be blended better.
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Re: Plot Bunnies to a good home (May be rabid)

Unread postby jgkitarel » December 17th, 2014, 6:15 am

Mek, you can do a take on it as more of a ideological split within the Japanese magical community, much like Mahou Sensei Negima does with the Kanto and Kansai magical associations.

One side is more favorable towards the western style for whatever reason (American occupation during World War II is a good place to start, but it could have started even earlier than that, like during the Meiji Restoration), while the other side is much more traditionally focused.

Oh and Phht, since we're also including the 60s, yes patriotism could have played a role, as well as the advent of nuclear weapons since the Trinity test in 1945 would have been a massive wakeup call for them if they noticed it. Also, keep in mind that during the 50s and 60s what also happened; The Space Race. By 1968, with muggles reaching the moon, that right there would have been a massive wakeup call as well.

As for electronics, I need to refine it a little. Not all electronics are affected the same way. Many older electronic devices and designs are less vulnerable. Think vacuum tubes, cathodes and transistors and no integrated circuits. In fact, their resistance is similar to how a lot of older electronic devices are EMP resistant, in the fact that the EMP might shut it down, but it doesn't prevent it from starting back up or even working though you might have to replace a few parts. Also, Magical Britain had managed to bring over the wireless radio and make it work, so the idea has some merit.

On a tech note, I was thinking that it would be well behind in many respects. Computers that they reliably have working would be more along the lines of the ENIAC or UNIVAC systems, maybe with some having an interface, rather than their version of punch cards, for programming since they might be able to cheat(think FORTRAN here), though some are more closely related to modern computers, but were personal projects and interests, rather than dedicated research. Think old school here, as they are still working on the ideas. I'm thinking along the lines of them trying to not only get mundane tech to work in a magical environment, but also building their own magical equivalents of that tech.

Primitive by our standards, but revolutionary for them in the fact that they had to start somewhere.
Also, I have to punch you, jgkitarel, because I spent a lot of time on the nanoha wiki trying to locate information on mages being trained due to being above a certain rank, only to remember and confirm that you were the one that came up with that. - Phht
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Re: Plot Bunnies to a good home (May be rabid)

Unread postby TraceReading » December 17th, 2014, 7:23 pm

On the subject of things we've seen too much of, stories where Harry gets taken to Japan (why? I mean just WHY?) and ends up being all "Japan Strong, Asia Magic Best Magic" and don't forget the katana!

It's just one hell of a headscratcher.

That and people assuming Norse runes are the ONLY runes (like why would middle eastern wizards even USE such a system when they could rely on cuneiform or, hell, Hebrew, Sanskrit or Arabic...talk about runic languages that are still in circulation...)

But if you NEED to involve Japan you can explain their usage of wands and brooms as 1) being imported from the European explorers that showed up in the 1600s and 2) found to be more convenient than long strings of hand-signs and incantations. Of course talismans and such would still be in use for a long period but with the gradual increase of Western influence coupled with how closely the mundane and magical are intertwined in Japanese culture well by the 19th century you might see a complete shift away from traditional methods of spellcasting.

That and they wanted a way to be more proactive and versatile with their magic; circles and feng shui are all well and good but you can't move the former and the latter, while its effects may center on the practicioner, is very location-specific, not to mention rather passive.
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Re: Plot Bunnies to a good home (May be rabid)

Unread postby jgkitarel » December 18th, 2014, 7:26 am

Ideas on the Middle Eastern warding and runic systems:

I would say there isn't a unified system there. Besides, it probably would be better to say Mesopotamian warding and runic systems, as the Middle East is a bit of a generalization. Also, there are a lot of cultures in the Middle East, as you can actually say that the Middle East actually starts in Europe with Greece and the Balkans due to historic and cultural ties.

(spoilered for length)
Spoiler: show
Mesopotamia: They would traditionally use Sumerian cuneiform. While the language itself has been dead as an active language since the fall of the Sumerian civilizations and their absorbtion by the Akkadians, they have shaped the languages to some degree. Furthermore, the writing systems survived, both for official communications and later as a liturgical language in the non-magical sense until the 1st Century AD, when Christianity began to actively spread.

Anatolia: They use a combination of Greek and Old Persian cuneiform, with some influences from other lands thrown in due to Anatolia's (Turkey essentially) location as a major trade and invasion route into Europe). The language influence between Greek and Old Persian changes depending on where you are, with more Old Persian being more common in use the further west you go, and Greek being the case the further east you go.

Greece, the Balkans and the Black Sea region: They use Greek for cultural reasons. Aside from Greece's uses of the language for obvious regions, Greek influence is felt widely there due to linguistic, trade and cultural exchange over the course of the centuries. Greek based warding is very mathematical, using geometry heavily, along with astronomical symbols, with each Greek character and symbol having specific uses and combinations.

Persia: Primarily using Old Persian cuneiform, their differs strongly with Mesopotamian cuneiform due to their also incorporating proto-Sanskrit due to Persian culture and religion having many origins and ties from the Indus Valley. The cuneiform is based heavily on the simple fact that it was used heavily as a means of facilitating trade, but the meanings to them have differences from Mesopotamian cuneiform, which makes the two incompatible for warding schemes.
As for the Japan bit, considering how many of us are anime fans and we tend to have a very romanticized view of Japan. Having been there a few times as a tourist, and spent three years in the similar culture of Korea, I can tell you that their view is very wrong, but try telling them that.

I used Mahou Sensei Negima as an example to explain a possible ideological split, with Western Styles being favored by one group and traditional styles being favored by another group. Both have their strengths, both have weaknesses.
Also, I have to punch you, jgkitarel, because I spent a lot of time on the nanoha wiki trying to locate information on mages being trained due to being above a certain rank, only to remember and confirm that you were the one that came up with that. - Phht
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Re: Plot Bunnies to a good home (May be rabid)

Unread postby jgkitarel » December 29th, 2014, 8:03 am

Trace, going back over some of your comments on the Japanese. I have one question to ask:

Why would they go away from talismans, when even Japanese Christians still routinely get them from Shinto shrines or just buy them? Keep in mind that the Japanese Christians adapted Christianity to their culture, rather than strictly adapt to it. The same can be said about Western ideas in general, considering that many them did get adopted by the Japanese, but mostly because their own culture had no equivalent. Even then, those same Western ideas (and ideals) were adapted to their own culture.

Traditional methods would actually still be around, even prized, due to how culturally significant they would be. There wouldn't be a complete shift away from them. Your earlier assumption about wands being adopted because they are faster than long strings of hand signs and incantations is probably more spot on. It was a pragmatic choice on their part, though you would still have traditional practitioners.
Also, I have to punch you, jgkitarel, because I spent a lot of time on the nanoha wiki trying to locate information on mages being trained due to being above a certain rank, only to remember and confirm that you were the one that came up with that. - Phht
Don't forget: Mass Effect is powered by magic space rocks. Evangelion is powered by Your Mom.
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Re: Plot Bunnies to a good home (May be rabid)

Unread postby Wraith5 » December 29th, 2014, 9:35 am

Traditional methods would actually still be around, even prized, due to how culturally significant they would be. There wouldn't be a complete shift away from them. Your earlier assumption about wands being adopted because they are faster than long strings of hand signs and incantations is probably more spot on. It was a pragmatic choice on their part, though you would still have traditional practitioners.
Actually, wouldn't hand signs be more discreet? I mean, waving a wand around isn't the most... subtle... thing to do, right? My guess is there would be the people using wands because it's easier, people using hand signs because they're being traditional, and people using both because they're being practical.
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Re: Plot Bunnies to a good home (May be rabid)

Unread postby TraceReading » December 30th, 2014, 12:46 am

Yeah but that's the thing. They're BUYING the talismans, not making them on their own. It's...well it's like any other industry, really. The essential part, though, is that wands represent a constant. A constant source of magic that can be adapted to the situation. A few movements, a word or two, and you have a new effect. For that you'd need to either buy a dozen different talismans, or perform one hundred hand signs at the same time as you recite an incantation. It's a matter of convenience, sure, but people will always go for the easy option over the enduring one.
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Re: Plot Bunnies to a good home (May be rabid)

Unread postby Phht » December 30th, 2014, 6:28 am

I think we're looking at this all wrong. Wand magic and onmyodo type magic are not equal and easily exchangeable. Wand magic is a jack of all trades, master of none. Conjuration, charms, hexes, etc. Onmyodo is not, but in the areas that overlap with wand magic, it does it better.

Take a Dementor. To a wand user, the only thing they can do is throw a patronus at them while praying to god. An Onmyodo user can use ofuda to freeze the thing into place, then handseals/incantation to banish/seal/destroy it. That's discounting if we lump in things like demon/devil hunters from anime. You have charms that even non-magicals can use that help them in all sorts of areas without violating free will - a charm to help find a boyfriend/girlfriend vs love potions, for instance.

Also, I can't help but think wand magic kinda goes against Japanese culture. Wand magic tends to encourage laziness. Need a chair? Conjure one up. Cooking something? Animate the utensils to do most of the work for you. Washing dishes? There's a spell for that. Need to go somewhere? Grab a broom, floo, or apparate there. Given that a completely different religion from the ones that generally use talismans and charms treats them seriously in Japan, I figure wand magic is likely a minority in the Japanese magical world.
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Re: Plot Bunnies to a good home (May be rabid)

Unread postby TraceReading » December 30th, 2014, 10:00 am

That's assuming Eastern magic CAN destroy dementors. Assuming it has ever even ENCOUNTERED dementors. And I think you're overselling Japanese culture just a bit. (Otherwise they wouldn't be doing stuff like building robots or designing high-speed trains.) Contrarily I think that the overlap between mundane and magical culture in the East would not lend itself to stubborn traditionalists making up the majority of magic-users.

And the only reason you don't see British wizards setting up a curio shop on the muggle side of things to sell charm bracelets and shit like that is the Ministry heavily regulates things (that and the fact that British wizards are more inclined to intend harm rather than aid).
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