EdStargazer's Fanfic works - Fic Discussion

Re: EdStargazer's Fanfic works - Fic Discussion

Unread postby Phht » May 4th, 2010, 5:34 pm

That was a very nice development from the skipped Wave arc. I'm trying to remember if there was an earlier mention in the story about a team that went missing in Wave Country while doing an escort mission (I think so, but it's been a while since I read the whole thing). If there was, it was probably some point during the Root arc and it was a side note I didn't pay too much attention to.

I'd almost expect some Legions on Wave action soon to free Wave (and its daimyo) from Gato.
Also, yay on Naruto and Sakura learning to be scary with a wider variety of weaponry. :secret_laugh:
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Re: EdStargazer's Fanfic works - Fic Discussion

Unread postby EdStargazer » May 4th, 2010, 7:31 pm

That was a very nice development from the skipped Wave arc. I'm trying to remember if there was an earlier mention in the story about a team that went missing in Wave Country while doing an escort mission (I think so, but it's been a while since I read the whole thing). If there was, it was probably some point during the Root arc and it was a side note I didn't pay too much attention to.
It was mentioned in passing during chapter 4
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Re: EdStargazer's Fanfic works - Fic Discussion

Unread postby Nebula1701 » May 4th, 2010, 11:34 pm

wait... genin?? didn't they become chunin?

or did I completely forget something
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Re: EdStargazer's Fanfic works - Fic Discussion

Unread postby Phht » June 25th, 2010, 8:07 pm

FYI, new chapter of Will Born in Fire is up. Chunin Exam conclusion!

I liked the final match. It points out the difference between experienced and inexperienced combatants nicely while not making things one-sided for either side.
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Re: EdStargazer's Fanfic works - Fic Discussion

Unread postby jgkitarel » June 26th, 2010, 9:48 pm

Frankly, the Kumo team was in for a few surprises, and boy, did they get them. I don't think they expected a team of chunin hopefuls to be that capable. A bit of a reminder to them that they can be beaten, but it was an object lesson to Team Apprentice. By all rights, they should have lost, and going through the chapter, I thought that they would.

It may have ended in a more or less a Pyrrhic Victory for Team Apprentice, and I can guarantee that they learned the implied lesson there. Naruto may have pulled a win, but Hinata and Sakura, not to Tsunade, will remind him that in a real fight, they would have lost. Although the win went to Team Apprentice, and they made an impressive show to Samui and Co., they were outmatched in many ways due to lack of experience.

Key Lesson: Training, no matter how superior, only goes so far.

They won, because of a nice Asspull from Naruto, but in a real battle, they would have lost. It shows a nice difference between training and experience. All in all, an excellent fight, and culmination to the Chunin Exams in Kumo.
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Re: EdStargazer's Fanfic works - Fic Discussion

Unread postby Phht » June 27th, 2010, 3:29 am

They won, because of a nice Asspull from Naruto, but in a real battle, they would have lost. It shows a nice difference between training and experience. All in all, an excellent fight, and culmination to the Chunin Exams in Kumo.
To be fair, they won due to a nicely timed Asspull. If Naruto was just a second slower, the genjutsu would've caught him instead of popping loose due to the summoning chakra expulsion. And then he wouldn't have been able to finish.

OTOH, Samui was playing with fire, using that genjutsu on Naruto. What if he thought Hinata had died or something and pulled on the 9T chakra out of grief/rage/berserkerness? Given that Bee blurted it out loud at that meet-and-greet dinner thing, there's no way she wouldn't know. Then again, she might think he has control over it like Bee and Yugito do (and he did promise not to call on it). But still not quite the best idea.
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Re: EdStargazer's Fanfic works - Fic Discussion

Unread postby Phht » July 30th, 2010, 6:25 pm

FYI, new chapter of Naruto: Captured is up.


And damn, that was a nice tie in at the end of information from the recent Naruto chapters.
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Re: EdStargazer's Fanfic works - Fic Discussion

Unread postby Nebula1701 » August 1st, 2010, 12:45 pm

Indeed it was, good chapter! :D

you know now I'm growing curious... just how many here read these?
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Re: EdStargazer's Fanfic works - Fic Discussion

Unread postby Phht » August 16th, 2010, 7:03 pm

Enough read that the author got a discussion thread!

Also, Naruto: Captured was updated.


And oh dear god I can't wait for the next chapter after reading the end of this one.
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Re: EdStargazer's Fanfic works - Fic Discussion

Unread postby Nebula1701 » August 20th, 2010, 12:13 pm

haha finally got to read it... yeah the ending was good and I too can't wait!
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Re: EdStargazer's Fanfic works - Fic Discussion

Unread postby Phht » September 7th, 2010, 8:31 pm

Aaaaaaaaaaand The Will Born in Fire received an update!

Fun times on the way home, and the last official stuff regarding the Chunin Exams are completed.
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Re: EdStargazer's Fanfic works - Fic Discussion

Unread postby Lightwhispers » September 7th, 2010, 9:47 pm

Very good indeed. I very much liked how the poker tourney was resolved.
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Especially how you let Tsunade win without invoking her curse. And Naruto learning he's not quite as sneaky as he may think.
Also, Naruto's learning about how to be a boyfriend without people going psycho on him for not knowing. Well done! :waytogo
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Re: EdStargazer's Fanfic works - Fic Discussion

Unread postby Nasdaq » September 8th, 2010, 1:31 am

I recently began reading The Will Born In Fire and blasted through it pretty quick. I enjoyed it, to a point, but had some serious critique. The premise was amusing, but the whole burn thing seemed to end up becoming only a moderate issue, and eventually just faded out. The treatment of Sasuke just started to grind on me; I think that Ed, like many, many, MANY people seems to totally miss Sasuke's character, and plays him vastly differently than he actually is.

WARNING, INCOMING TROPE STORM!

My biggest issue is he's written as a Jerkass from the start, when in reality he was more of Troubled, But Cute with bits of Jerkass Facade. He also tended to be a candidate for Defrosting Ice Queen, and has a bit of Deadpan Snarker. He's seen as being excessively prideful, but instead of Don't You Dare Pity Me that eventually fades away he's shown as this universally asshole guy who revels in all the attention he was getting and so on, when that really misses the mark with Sasuke. He did ask for help from Sakura, and he didn't act like a dick about it afterward, if I remember. Also, by the chuunin exam, he was to the point of wanting to fight Naruto, respecting him as at least an equal in combat. Instead, in Will Born In Fire, you've got him trying to point out that Sasuke was trying to kill Naruto in the valley, but seems to forget that Naruto was trying to drag him back to the village, and stop him from going off to get the power he needed. Now, this seems like it would support Ed's characterization until you remember that during this he was also under the influence of a mind-altering seal and had recently had a certain elder Uchiha show back up in his life and awaken a shit ton of old wounds. Amusingly, Itachi ones again proves to stupid in that he inadvertently likely caused his brother to run from Konoha by showing back up so publicly.

Basically, the statement that "This is Sasuke without Naruto's influence" tends to fall flat and just give way to blatant character bashing, a practice I simply loathe. There are a lot of characters I do not care for in multiple series, but outright bashing tends to blind you to their actual character, which tends to have a ripple effect across the entirety of the story. What is more, it tends to be a wasted opportunity. Ed is a good writer, I enjoyed the story, but instead of using the opportunity to reflect Sasuke accurately, OR turn him into the decent villain he originally claimed he was going to, he never actually writes Sasuke anything more as a fairly weak, prideful Jerkass who gets sealed and actually never does anything overtly villainous. It was very off putting.

One other thing with Sasuke is the somewhat silly expectation that a small boy was somehow wrong in making sure he escaped a burning building. He's a kid for Christ sakes. If what Naruto did wasn't above and beyond, he wouldn't be so recognized for it in the first place. Looking down on Sasuke seemed a bit heavy handed. And even then, it doesn't fit his character. Like the rest, this was my major issue with the fic; the sheer ball-dropping when it came to writing Sasuke.

Other minor issues like the premise of the 'new Sannin' were somewhat iffy; the idea that Anko couldn't pass over the contract also seemed a bit odd. A better explanation would be that Manda was hardly the ones they wanted to be making deals with, rather then her being unable to pass it on. Even then you could have found an excuse. Not a major thing, but just a minor gripe. The story also tends to overestimate Ibiki and Anko's abilities, I think. Again, minor issues. I particularly disliked the Wave arc in general. Not because I dislike the arc in canon, nor in fiction, indeed I think being able to make an interesting and unique take on the Wave Arc is a commendable skill as a writer, rather then trying the short route of just ignoring it. The way he treats Konoha as a pure military base sort of misses some points, I think, but that's an eXTREMELY minor issue. There were handful of other minor things that I either just don't feel like listing or don't honestly remember; I remember them existing, but not enough to remember what they were.

Another issue is that in the author notes, Ed can come off a little overbearing at times, which can grind. Doesn't detract from the story much, but it is a bit off-putting.

All in all, I rate the story 6/10; I think it's far better than most but loses a lot in execution of Sasuke, and that it so quickly abandoned the mental trauma Naruto faced instead of using it. On the positive, I think it used a fairly unique and interesting concept, even if I don't entirely agree with the characterization of all the characters (Hinata, for example), and the execution of some of the other plot concepts, such as the new Sannin and the fight with Orochimaru during the Chuunin Exams. I might recommend the story to people who particularly enjoy Naruto/Hinata, and strongfics, but I think it's got quite a few flaws that sort of pull it from being really one of the best.

I'm going to read his other stuff, as I did enjoy it, to a point, and finding decent Naruto/Hinata stories is such a pain, but I thought I'd just drop my two cents in. That said, what's Naruto's pairing in Naruto: Captured, by the by?
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Re: EdStargazer's Fanfic works - Fic Discussion

Unread postby Phht » September 8th, 2010, 4:17 am

I don't think Naruto: Captured has a pairing. Sakura and Naruto are more close-sibling than romantic at the moment, and he hasn't really had any big contact with other girls his age outside of duty so not much room for anything to develop there.

--
One other thing with Sasuke is the somewhat silly expectation that a small boy was somehow wrong in making sure he escaped a burning building. He's a kid for Christ sakes. If what Naruto did wasn't above and beyond, he wouldn't be so recognized for it in the first place. Looking down on Sasuke seemed a bit heavy handed. And even then, it doesn't fit his character. Like the rest, this was my major issue with the fic; the sheer ball-dropping when it came to writing Sasuke.
I'd comment here, but what I recalled in my head about the scene doesn't match up with what's written (for some reason, my mind had him shoving his way past the others before continuing panicked charge out of the building rather than being in the lead of the group ignoring the rest of them). Though I think it does illustrate a lack of concern for the others. Yes, it's not wrong to make sure you get clear of a burning building. But if you notice the rest of the group he's with is helping one person and moving together orderly rather than panicked flight from the building. Group moving in orderly fashion to exit vs running off alone to the exit. Which choice a person takes does reveal details about them (such as failure to follow protocol for evacuation of a burning building).
the idea that Anko couldn't pass over the contract also seemed a bit odd. A better explanation would be that Manda was hardly the ones they wanted to be making deals with, rather then her being unable to pass it on. Even then you could have found an excuse.
To me, that comes across as "Orochimaru is the holder of the contract, so she can't add people without his permission or his being there." Tsunade and Jiraiya are both the 'holders' for their summons (as eldest user or whatever), so can approve of additions. Anko is not, thus can't. Alternately, we can go with "Hiashi doesn't want her on it" that is mentioned in one of the ANs a one of three reasons Hinata's not on it (chp 20). And a another AN that specifically mentions that Anko isn't the holder for the contract (chp 19).

As to the "fire issue," it could've been explained more, but it apparently didn't come up until the Rookie of the Year bout. Such a debilitating issue would need to get fixed fast (because it's a glaring weak point), so it couldn't stay out into other arcs. And honestly, I dunno if I'd want to read multiple chapters on Naruto slowly overcoming his fear (and more stuff on the others' training).

But I do have to say that going back and reading it from the beginning now, it does seem to hit more 'fanon' jerkass!ego-bloated!Sasuke issues. Not enough to hurt the fic too much, but definitely there if you take the time to look (I typically don't unless it's really obvious).
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Re: EdStargazer's Fanfic works - Fic Discussion

Unread postby Nasdaq » September 8th, 2010, 4:43 am

Oh, of course, I mean, I'm extenuating the negative, of course. I enjoyed it, and read the entire thing, and I'll keep reading it too. As per the contract, I always was of the mindset that the contract really has nothing to do with the 'contract holder.' The summoners shouldn't really have much of a say on what the summons choose to sign a contract with. Even then, contracts seem to vary from person to person; Orochimaru had a tattoo rather than a scroll, it seemed, for example.

Minor, of course. More personal understanding I guess, and that varies from person to person.

And despite everything, Sasuke is, for some reason, one of my favorite characters. Mostly because I see him as a very complex emotional character that can be handled extremely compellingly, but Kishimoto seems to forget that and so many fanfiction writers tend to forget it too. So, I mean, I just tend to notice it more than most, I guess. Other people have similar reactions with Hinata, I've seen.
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Re: EdStargazer's Fanfic works - Fic Discussion

Unread postby EdStargazer » September 8th, 2010, 12:23 pm

Hello, Ed here. I try to stay off this thread since it is to discuss what I write unless I think something needs to be clarified.

I guess I should start by saying up front, I dislike the character of Uchiha Sasuke. I realize that colors everything I write with him but it is how I feel. I understand others see him differently. I compared him often enough to Anakin Skywalker. It falls back on the classic Star Wars cliche, 'From a certain point of view.' What follows is mine mixed with a few facts.

Yes, I used a lot of these tropes in that story early on. I dialed up the arrogance level a bit early on Sasuke. What 12 yr old would't want to be the center of the universe and adored by everyone? I also turned up the mental damage to him done by his brother. Later on in canon, he is more arrogant than all the other characters combined. {You won't even touch my headband. Puh-lease}. But, I never made him weak or incompetant as many bashers do. I made sure his skill level was up there. Naruto matched him through trickery and not fighting toe to toe with him in my Genin Exam in WBIF. Later on, in the Chunin exam, Naruto again relied on trickery and focused on making Sasuke look bad rather than actually going for a win at first. In both cases, Sasuke would have easily won had Naruto tried to fight 'fair'. I am willing to discuss my thinking on the character within WBIF at length but that is not something for this post or this forum

But, in regards to canon, both manga and anime and no matter what your view of him; he did turn traitor to Konoha and defect to Orochimaru for power. He could have gotten equally as strong in Konoha in time but he wanted a shortcut. Konoha produced some of the most powerful ninja in the Elemental Countries. During the VotE fight, he chose to use the power of the curse seal. Kakashi had sealed it off with a really iffy seal that depends on the will of the person not to use it? That is like giving a toddler a lit flare in a room of explosives and telling him not to light anything. It ain't gonna happen.
He chose to try to kill Naruto with his chidori and in the manga states his disappointment that Naruto managed to deflect the killing blow before choosing to snap Naruto's neck. Those are not friendly acts. The anime played down those acts greatly. They focued instead on action scenes of battle, the finale of the battle and with Sasuke just leaving the downed Naruto in the rain.

Those events are all part of the core Naruto story, not fanon. He is as Kishimoto wrote him. There were many points along the way, he could have turned away and chosen to call things finished but Kishimoto kept him travelling down that path. Had the writer done anything like that, I would likely overlook his earlier weaknesses as simply being young and human.

I admit I tried to go easier on him in 'Captured'. By the time he becomes relevant in the story, he is frustrated and angry. Instead of being washed back with his team's failure, he got used as a replacement in a broken team and sent off on snipe hunts with them. Yes, I and Naruto and Sakura beat him down but that was to prove a point to him; that they were not the useless people he knew a half year earlier. Individually, he was stronger than N&S but they double teamed him. I left out the curse seal which did have a contributing factor to his slide in canon so he was more balanced mentally (for Sasuke) and realized he needed help, not power, to deal with his mental issues.

And um, yeah, as you are a Naru/Hina fan like me. Don't hate me but I kind of broke Hinata in 'Captured' as well (lays the blame on them dang fanon Hyuuga elders for ruining her mentally)
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Re: EdStargazer's Fanfic works - Fic Discussion

Unread postby Nitramy » September 8th, 2010, 12:31 pm

Throwing in my two cents on this:

You could have it both ways regarding Uchiha Sasuke's character: make him compelling without making him deviate too much from his core canon character.

There are many ways to write this in fanfiction; one has to but look to find a concept worth writing on.

Though I will say that the canon Uchiha Sasuke is a waste of a potentially compelling character. You could have him try to get at Konoha from the inside; manipulate people; do ninja stuff. Not spam eye tricks and whatnot.
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Re: EdStargazer's Fanfic works - Fic Discussion

Unread postby Nasdaq » September 8th, 2010, 1:10 pm

Honestly, as long as Hinata doesn't get paired with anyone else, I'm generally game for most fics. Less enjoyable, but yeah. I must admit that I haven't read captured and that fanon evil Hyuuga elders is going to make me frown, I'll get over it.

As per Sasuke, I think that you must also remember that in that fight he had just been essentially been sealed up in what more or less counts as an Evil Incubator for quite some time while his Cursed Seal going into stage 2. He was also so mindfucked that he was really just going for power at any cost. I think one thing that needs to be pointed out is that Sasuke never cared about being the best, not the way most prideful sorts are. He wanted power and to be strong, so he could kill his brother. Being the best was more or less a side factor to this; likewise, he wanted strong opponents only to test him and make him stronger. It wasn't really a prideful "I am the best." per se as much as "I want power."

His actions in the valley were made with intent to kill, correct, but that doesn't make him as crazy as people think. I need to go back, but I'm trying to think who it was who actually started the fight at the end. Anyone remember? Regardless, we must look at the situation; Sasuke wants to go get power from Orochimaru. He believes that is his own choice. He's being a dick about it, but still, it's his choice. Now, from a stand back standpoint, I see this as treason, as to others. Naruto just wants to drag him back cus he's being stupid and so on. But to him, mindfucked not once but twice by his brother dearest, sealed into the EvilIncubator2000Deluxe and an emotion tainting Cursed Seal running rampant while he is, already having the Seal there that was hindered but already he hadn't the willpower to fight it. Thus, while I do not EXCUSE his actions, I do EXPLAIN them. I point that most of his downward spiral, TO ME, starts only post cursed seal and post Itachi showing up again. Then, he gets his shot at power with this seal, and it tempts him to the short path. He's defending himself from someone he sees as trying to stop him from his sworn goal in life. Is it entirely mentally sound? No, but it's got an element of pragmatism to it; he cares not who, but if you get in his way to power, he will not hesitate to kill you. It also shows something very clear to Sasuke: he cares about what is. Why is this key? Well, it's complicated.

Where I draw the problem is that you have him acting more prideful "I am the best" and outright lashing out at Sakura for hitting his face. ALMOST taking an eye is not taking an eye. If anything, I think his reaction would be more appropriately "Pfft, nice shot, but you're just not good enough." rather then the Rage. He's always been a cool character, and while he can get angry, rage doesn't really fit him that way. Simply put, I'd see him trying to kill Sakura if she actually DID take his eye, maybe. Otherwise, it came off a bit... odd.

I don't think Sasuke has anything against Konoha, and no reason to go against them. Not until Madara sunk his claws into him and he disregarded Itachi's actual wishes. (Though I could write an essay on Itachi and his stupid moves despite his sorta kinda good intentions. Sort of where a lot of Naruto-sensei came from.) I think if you even remove Orochimaru or a similar path to power, Sasuke could be transformed into a very loyal if jerkish guy. People Lie is a good example SORT of, but it has it's own events. Really, I can't think of a story off the top of my head that really falls in line on it.

Again, I must point out, I really enjoyed the story. I knew your feelings on Sasuke before I started, and I still enjoyed it greatly. I don't entirely agree with certain other small things in your story but that was all just abased on interpretation as much as anything. The only real major thing I had an issue with was your treatment of Sasuke, which is why it's the only thing you see me actually complaining about in length. :P That said, I hope my fics are as well regarded some day to get a thread discussing them on the forum, and it would be a great honor if you'd read Naruto-sensei (Pack Light being rewritten and all) and give me your opinion, if you've got the time. Hell, if you've the time, I'd like to ask you to Beta for me as well. :P Though given I'm going for a few months starting September 14th means it'll be a bit before I'd actually call on you. Though retroactive beta of the posted stuff, and of the one chapter I'm working on now would be great. Again, only if you've got the time.

Basically, I got mad respect for your stuff, despite the harsh critique, and I'd love if you can take a look at my own pet story, and so on. And now, if you'll excuse me, going to start reading Captured now. :P
"Sasuke was not really happy with his team. The shy Hyuuga, and the laziest person he'd ever known where not people he'd have picked. And he never expected how a blue-eyed, blond-haired, and newly minted jounin would transform them all into a true team." - Naruto-sensei, currently in Arc 2: The Chuunin Exams
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Re: EdStargazer's Fanfic works - Fic Discussion

Unread postby Phht » June 3rd, 2011, 2:30 am

It's been quite a while since this thread saw use, but Naruto: Captured was updated!

Probably the best ending to the Wave situation possible with the resources available. Though I wouldn't be surprised if some loose ends were tied up later on in the story.
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Re: EdStargazer's Fanfic works - Fic Discussion

Unread postby jgkitarel » June 3rd, 2011, 6:08 pm

The fact that Konoha Shinobi operated under the aegis of Uzushio (defunct, but facts rarely get in the way of feelings) and Naruto's own thoughts on the matter will definitely need to be addressed.

EDIT: Naruto: Captured has been updated.

Whoa, interesting development here with Naruto getting a new bombshell dropped onto him.
Also, I have to punch you, jgkitarel, because I spent a lot of time on the nanoha wiki trying to locate information on mages being trained due to being above a certain rank, only to remember and confirm that you were the one that came up with that. - Phht
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Re: EdStargazer's Fanfic works - Fic Discussion

Unread postby Nebula1701 » July 7th, 2011, 11:11 pm

edits don't update this thread so I didn't even know anyone read the latest chapter XD

yeah it was a big one!
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Re: EdStargazer's Fanfic works - Fic Discussion

Unread postby Phht » July 27th, 2012, 9:15 pm

Hey, listen! Hey!

New chapter of Naruto: Captured was released!
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Re: EdStargazer's Fanfic works - Fic Discussion

Unread postby jgkitarel » July 28th, 2012, 12:03 am

Yup, and it looks like Naruto and Sakura have gained a little notoriety with certain elements.
Also, I have to punch you, jgkitarel, because I spent a lot of time on the nanoha wiki trying to locate information on mages being trained due to being above a certain rank, only to remember and confirm that you were the one that came up with that. - Phht
Don't forget: Mass Effect is powered by magic space rocks. Evangelion is powered by Your Mom.
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Re: EdStargazer's Fanfic works - Fic Discussion

Unread postby Nebula1701 » August 6th, 2012, 12:41 pm

Yes indeed yes indeed. :D

I wonder what kind of mess this will turn into.
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Re: EdStargazer's Fanfic works - Fic Discussion

Unread postby Phht » August 11th, 2013, 8:49 pm

FYI new chapter of Captured is up. (omg finally, right?)

More fun and games, and we discover at the end that... yeah... Sakura's mind isn't quite the same after the time in Root. :D
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