Dad of fallen marine in supreme court

[Zankaru Zelladonii]

Father of fallen marine court ordered to pay group who protested at sons funeral.

The case is going to the supreme court but im sure we all know what the outcome is going to be. The church group was within their rights of free speech and the father is going to have to pay them. Fraking disgusting.

[Tempest Kitsune]

They're not a church, they're a damned cult. I mean, pretty much every member is related to the leader through blood or marriage!

[gman391]

Speaking as a Christian(Admittedly not a good one but I do try)...

Westboro Baptist Church is not Christian.
Not the Christianity I know anyway not one any decent person would follow.

Whatever your beliefs the original message as I understands it is "Love the Lord" "Love thy Neighbor as thy self" That didn't mean just the neighbor you liked it meant love all of them even the ones you don't like. It meant reaching out and showing them that people cared and God cared. Jesus didn't condemn people. What they did? Yes all the time. He had very high standards. But the people themselves? He forgave them. And offered them comfort.
Whatever the Westboro people believe it isn't Christianity it's just an excuse to hate.
It is a cult by any definition. The Baptist church has disowned them entirely.

My prayers go out to the father of that brave marine. And I apologize for any offense given.

[SLAMU]

In 1977 and 1978 the National Socialist Party of America, a neo-Nazi organization, announced their intention to hold rallies in Skokie, Illinois. This town had the highest number of Jews per capita in the United States, so it wasn't suprising that the NSPA didn't get their permits. The case went to the Supreme Court, where it was determined that their right to assembly was indeed being violated. The announcement of their choice of where they were to rally was a deliberate provication, yet the ACLU took up their case. (The lead lawyer on the case was a Jew himself, as a side note.) This is one of the more provacative examples of the First Amendment's protection of unpopular ideals.

The Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka, Kansas has been picketing the funerals of soldiers ever since July 2005. They proclaim their doctrine of hate to grieving families whose children died defending their right to do this very thing. They are classified as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center, alongside people like the KKK. They spend time and treasure traveling to spread pain and misery, protected by laws they seem to despise. Laws have been enacted all the way to the top to protect families from them; in 2006 President Bush signed the Respect for America's Fallen Heroes Act. As gman said; this is not the Christianity I know. That this group of citizens are within their legal rights does not mean that what they do is justice.

Fourtunatly, ordinary people are working to counter them and their shameful actions. Bill O'Reilly said that he'd foot Snyder's bill if it comes to that, and the Hell's Angels rallied in defense of the families, traveling to funerals (if invited) and "Shield[ing] the mourning family and friends from interruptions created by any protestor or group of protestors." To have so many people working both through legal means and outside the legal framework to counter them, rather than resorting to the sort of mob violence I personally feel might be justified (if just this once) is a testiment to not only the kind of pride and respect that humans can feel towards eachother, but also proof that the system works, by Jove.

Tl;dr Comparing WBC to Nazis, people are cool for standing up against them.
(Does Godwin's Law apply to neo-Nazis?)

[Phht]

I find it interesting that the father sued the group for intentionally inflicting emotional distress. But the decision was reversed based on free speech grounds. Surely there's some point where free speech is limited when it intentionally impacts another group negatively like that in a location where the affected group can't just leave, such as funeral goers?

Does this mean that it's okay for groups to emotionally distress and traumatize other people regardless of location as long as they stay within free speech grounds despite how distasteful their message is? I shudder to think what hate groups would do with that kind of precedent.

I guess that's already the case given what SLAMU said just above. But looking at the WBC wiki entry, I spotted this:

See also Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire, a case where certain personal slurs and obscene utterances by an individual were found unworthy of First Amendment protection, due to the potential for violence resulting from their utterance.

At least Bill O'Reilly announced that he would pay the cost if it came to it.

--

Is the WBC even considered a religious organization? I'm pretty sure they think every religion outside their church is false and blahblahblah. And I'm pretty sure that no religious organization will ever claim them as part of their religion.

Oh, and SLAMU, I don't think Godwin's Law applies when the group being compared to Nazis have already caused it to be invoked (the WBC picketed the Holocaust Museum in Washington, DC and said that Jews were the real Nazis; at another time the founder called homosexuals Nazis).

[Zankaru Zelladonii]

I think we can all agree that the WBC do not act like christians.

I am happy to hear bill has offered to fund the father, I was looking for a way to send money to help him get enough for a supreme court case earlier.

[Dervon]

I always like to point out how every conceivable group on the face of the Earth has a splinter-faction of black-sheep they are ashamed of.

These people are that splinter to every decent man or woman that considers himself/herself religious and Cristian.

That is all.

...

As an aside, the creep in charge held a very "touching" speech post Heath Ledger's death about how Australia was... Well, I think you can picture the kind of things he said. *sigh*

...

On the topic of free speech: Don't people in America risk losing their jobs if, for example, they drop an N-bomb? Also, other such similarly tagged "hate"-words? Isn't what these creeps say pretty much that? How does saying one constitute an issue, but the stuff they say doesn't?

[gman391]

I dunno I know in Canada you can be prosecuted for this kind of thing under the hate crimes legislation in most provinces. It's one of the reasons Anne Coulter backed out of a speaking engagement at the University of Ottawa. But as for the states? *Shrugs*
Fred Phelps(Westboro's Pastor) is a bad man.....although I do wonder how he became so...detached from reality.

He also had a nice speech about Pope John Paul II


The

[unknown11228]

I'm admittedly no law professor, but here it goes.
You can't actually be fired for using the N-word unless they can prove it was harassment, and even then, you will only lose your job. The only speech I know of that is actually illegal involves lying in some way like defamation of character or bomb scares. There is no way to prove they are lying because this is religion. We don't want to set a precedent for blocking any speech no matter how... distasteful because less enlightened people may use it against civil rights activists.
There are some workarounds. Employers will actively look for an excuse to fire these protesters without violating labor laws even if it's clearly legal fiction and all those little misdemeanors that no one pays attention to will suddenly apply to them. Basically, everyone who isn't a part of the group in question will actively try to make the group's life more difficult in any way they legally can.
Unfortunately, like most cult members none of the members of the Westboro Baptist'sChurch actually have jobs, the social isolation actually increases the cohesiveness of the cult, and they carefully check all those little laws ahead of time so they don't get hit with them. They have worked around the work arounds.

[MrRigger2]

I think the best explanation for Free Speech was in a comic in my government book. It basically said that it's within your constitutional rights to yell fire in a crowded theater, but you'll still be arrested because you're hurting other people. I'm not saying these are the exact same things, but it gets the point across. You may have the right to do something, but you still have to exercise that right responsibly.

MrRigger

[Chuckg]

Time, Place, and Manner Restrictions at answer.com.

[Zankaru Zelladonii]

Unfortunately, like most cult members none of the members of the Westboro Baptist'sChurch actually have jobs, the social isolation actually increases the cohesiveness of the cult, and they carefully check all those little laws ahead of time so they don't get hit with them. They have worked around the work arounds.

Stupid and cautious are never a good combination.

I will be interested in seeing how the SC judges it, although as I understand it the group was within their rights, but I would like to see a new law that forbids protest within a thousand feet (or something) of a funeral home.

I know im young and all (18), and I have started seeing how messed up humanity can be since I turned 16, but sometimes I just cant believe there are really people like that out in the world. *sigh*

[Phht]

Actually, after WBC started doing that stuff, several states put laws in place to stop that and Bush signed into a law for something similar (though I think only regarding funerals at cemeteries operated by a national cemetery agency?).

[Zankaru Zelladonii]

Actually, after WBC started doing that stuff, several states put laws in place to stop that and Bush signed into a law for something similar (though I think only regarding funerals at cemeteries operated by a national cemetery agency?).

Well its obvious the law needs to be beefed up and applied to every cemetary/funeral home then.