Author Lord's Patreon

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Author Lord's Patreon

Unread postby Quetzal2006 » April 10th, 2015, 7:51 am

Sorry to say but my first post is not going to be a nice one :(

Im going to try and be logical with this post, Im going to try and not let emotion get in the way and as such your thoughts are going to much appreciated. Author Lord, the guy who has literally left us waiting for years for updates on his (and deservedly so) his much loved fanfiction.

In fact out of all the fan fiction I've red these past 10 years I can say Author Lords work is definitely in my top five of best fan fiction ever ^_^ that fact that he's writing again is awesome, no question no doubt. But that's the good bit,

You guys are paying him over $300 to continue writing for you. Its incredibly selfish of him, don't believe me check out milestones and see for yourself isn't a milestone something that you, his "Patrons" receive after meeting target? Sort of like a new feature for reaching a predetermined target, granted Matt is writing regardless but that really isn't point.

There are many places your money could go to, more worthy places. The second big problem and I've started to notice this already In his work....is the mess his chapters are going to become as he accommodates the perk of allowing certain pledgers a cameo in his work. Having some many poor changes of POV in one chapter is bad especially for a writer of Matt's quality. Lastly if he's getting paid to write he's not doing out of passion - he's doing it out of pure greed. I would soon less updates and more quality the monthly updates and less. What do you think guys, am I right am I wrong?
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Re: Author Lord's Patreon

Unread postby Tempest Kitsune » April 10th, 2015, 1:11 pm

I would have to say that you're wrong, because you're ignoring the fact that what people are getting from their funding is access to Matt's original, unpublished work, as well as sneak-peeks at the chapters before everyone else, even the Beta readers. You're also ignoring all the stuff that the patrons get each time a chapter comes out.

Also, no. Milestones are not just things for the patrons. I've seen them used to indicate that people will be able to focus more on their work by being able to quit part-time jobs, or even tak up full-time jobs without offering anything to the patrons except a great deal of thanks. Look at Dave Barrack, the creator of the Grrl Power webcomic's Pateon if you don't believe me.
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Re: Author Lord's Patreon

Unread postby Quetzal2006 » April 12th, 2015, 3:01 am

Seriously, I spent like 40 minutes writing a well reasoned, well thought out reply to your reply before the forum timed me out :( and I lost it all so I'll do a quick condensed version instead.

*I believe my Matthew is selfish because he let us, his fans for like a year at a time waiting for an update while he did who knows what, and there's nothing in Patreon he employs is dissuading me others *
*The only thing writing fan fic requires is time and effort (put simply). If he was selfless he would give it freely, he is selfish because he is asking for a compensation for it*
*I didn't ignore the whole the access to unpublished original works I didn't even know it was a thing as I cant see it on the patron page https://www.patreon.com/viridiandreams*
*I'll concede my original milestone argument to you, admittedly I'm no Patreon expert so perhaps your right *

My opinion is entirely subjective but I believe Author Lord treats his fans like shit, basically. I'm not saying he is a bad person at all I don't know enough about him to make that comment I'm just expressing what I've experienced over years of following his work and being left hung out to dry in return. If you or anyone else can challenge and ultimately change my opinion then please please do so, because I'd like to get back to fan boying over his work rather than being disgusted at the author.

Btw Tempest Kitsune, I've totally seen that name somewhere before but for life of me I cant figure out where xp
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Re: Author Lord's Patreon

Unread postby Tempest Kitsune » April 12th, 2015, 12:49 pm

1. Matt had real life issues come up that impacted the time he could devote to writing. He has said as much both on the forum and in his author notes.
2. Do you have any idea how conceited you sound? Unless you've actually tried writing something and writing it well, don't make light of the effort that it takes to actually write good stories. "All it takes" indeed.
"Doesn't matter what the press says. Doesn't matter what the politicians or the mobs say. Doesn't matter if the whole country decides that something wrong is something right. This nation was founded on one principle above all else: the requirement that we stand up for what we believe, no matter the odds or the consequences. When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world — "No, you move."
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Re: Author Lord's Patreon

Unread postby Quetzal2006 » April 12th, 2015, 1:45 pm

Tempest, "if" he posted in the forums, then fair enough - what can I say, I didn't see them - and it would make some of argument
invalid.
And while you like to hurl childish insults at me, I don't see you backing up your arguments with anything like sound reasoning or links to posts for example. Also there's a lot of points, you just conveniently ignore, you cant seem to argue about my recent Patreon remarks can you, nor have you had anything to say about my concern with allowing alot of Cameo's in his work.

I'd also point out that I've said already multiple times I'm only expressing an opinion if you don't like it and disagree, that fine with me. But if you can only back up your argument with insults, then what does that make you?
Lastly yes I do know what it takes to write fiction, I've been at it for the past 12 years which is why I said "put simply" real world problems or even just working can really cut into the time you can devote to writing - but my issues where never about the speed his posting his work it was (my perception of) his lack of communication to us.
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Re: Author Lord's Patreon

Unread postby viridian » April 12th, 2015, 3:10 pm

Okay, either I or Runsamok have said several times that I had real-world issues curtailing my writing time. Health issues were part of it (mentioned last August), but work was the real killer. The reason you've seen a sudden increase in productivity is because I'm no longer employed. So while other things are being a pain, I have more time to work on various stories.

I'd also like to spell out that I am not charging for fanfic - what Patreon backers get is chapters of my original contemporary fantasy called "The Deal". Actually, the first submission that triggered billing was for five chapters bundled together because they were short, and I wanted people to get a good idea of the story. During this time I've also released 2 updates to NoFP and 1 update for Team 8. The next update for Team 8 is ~ 25% done. I will admit to using my fanfiction to help get the word out to my fans. That's because I've received multiple reviews asking if I have done any original stuff. (I do have a short story in one of JBern's anthologies.)

Patreon backers get "The Deal". Everyone gets NoFP and Team 8. We've tried to come up with other perks and incentives people could want. As I posted on my blog in reply to your comment, if anyone has better ideas, let me know.

The cameos (two to date) are basically just shout-outs. I had already planned to show the confrontation with Crouch Jr. from the perspective of the Auror that took him down... he was named in honor of someone that really made my day. (The fact that it happened right after I found out my position was eliminated made it even better.) I thought it was something nice to do for someone that didn't have a negative impact on anything else.

I understand if you've been frustrated by the long hiatus. I wasn't exactly enjoying it either. If I can find a way to write more without wrecking our household budget, I think that's a win/win scenario for everyone.

Also, if there is a question directed toward me, and one of the admins (Runsamok, Torbin, Tempest, etc...) answer it first, I generally leave it alone. In case it isn't clear, I know all three of them in real life, and they know my situation, etc... I apologize if that gives the impression I don't care.

Original reply on the blog:
Spoiler: show
Are you talking about my Patreon site? If so, we may need to revisit the explanations on the site. I am not asking for money to write fanfic. The “per chapter” figure is for the Original Fiction. Currently, my awesome backers are supporting “The Deal”, which is set in my own little modern fantasy Midwest. (This may not be clear because what I posted is only visible to patrons.)

We polled people on the forums, asking what rewards people would like to see for milestones or personal perks. For example: the first one involves me recording a short story reading. If you would like to see other kinds of milestones or rewards, please post your suggestions.

On a side note: I welcome comments and criticism, positive or negative. I hope this was just a misunderstanding regarding what the site was aimed at, and I appreciate the opportunity you’ve given me to clarify.
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Re: Author Lord's Patreon

Unread postby runsamok » April 12th, 2015, 4:00 pm

Hello Quetzal2006,

Thank you for joining the forum and posting your comments. I am the AuthorLord's wife and beta reader. I welcome reasonable constructive criticism here and I'm willing to discuss your concerns. This does not mean that I will allow the discussion to go down the road of insults. So please be polite to both the AuthorLord, other writers, and the members that post here. This also goes for other posters in the thread.

Matthew / AuthorLord has been writing fanfiction for free for more than 7 years. From your commentary, you believe that fanfiction should be offered for free (which it is) and that the writers should not be paid for their fanfiction work. I agree with this.

Matthew and I have been very careful to separate his original fiction from his fanfiction. Let me explain why there are mentions of fanfiction on the Patreon page: Matthew has a large following of fans for his fanfiction writing, so some of the perks and rewards are intended to please some of those people. Over time, he may also gain fans of his original fiction, and so some of the perks and rewards will be changed to reflect this. I would prefer that we not mention he writes fanfiction at all. Frankly that's not going to happen, because he has a large fanbase (AuthorLord's Army) who recognize his writing from NOFP and Team 8.

The fanfiction writing has slowed due to various reasons and I will provide an explanation below.

The AuthorLord started the NOFP story when he was laid off from a full time position. This happened to me and 1500 other employees at the same time. He decided to focus on writing full time and wanted to make a change in careers. Note that careers suggests that even at this time, he wanted to get paid for writing.

Losing his job meant that he had plenty of free time, but not much money for entertainment, so he spent time on things that were free (fanfiction) that helped him get closer to a career as a writer. He had also written some original fiction before the layoff and had attempted to get it published. This effort failed, but he did succeed in getting a short story published in a compilation of stories.

During this time, he continued to look for paying work and I expanded a part time business to full time to pay the bills. However, we had lost 30% of our previous income due to job loss. A year later, Matthew joined me working at a call center and we both worked full time again for 6 years. We were promoted into other roles and continued to work for the call center. During this time, the writing slowed down but he was posting about once a month. Matthew found that his motivation for and energy for writing declined when working full time in a call center. Moving to a different job didn't really help because his energy was still being drained by the job. Compounding this, a few years later, his health began to decline in ways that preventing him from sitting at a desk for long periods of time (1 hour or more). His health, energy, and the working conditions at our employer all combined to drain his interest, ability and energy for writing too. People started asking if he had abandoned the stories. He responded that no, he had not stopped writing, but it was painfully slow and would continue to be painfully slow until certain conditions improved.

Fanfiction is a free effort and a gift from the writer. If those gifts stop coming, the fans should not demand that the pace picks up or that the writer must continue updating. It's a gift and there are no strings attached. From what I've seen, most fanfiction writers lose interest and stop updating eventually, which does hang the fans out to dry. But the fans read other stories that are updating. It is a gift if they do, but it is not a tragedy if they stop.

Now that you have some history here, I hope that you can understand what happened more recently. Matthew was laid off again in January 2015. I was not laid off and continue to work for the call center. But our income never went back to previous levels and was halved again by the layoff. We had already done the cost-cutting and debt payoff that allows me to pay our bills with my income solely.

Matthew doesn't have to work full time anymore and he can start writing full time again. So, we discussed opening up a Patreon site and decided to post The Deal and The Journey (2 original fiction novels) through the Patreon site, one chapter at a time, for money from fans. Fans could support him for as long as they like or they could send him a dollar and get one chapter, then move on. His fanfiction writing has been more frequent now due to not working full time and perhaps his fans would also like his original fiction. Matthew is getting paid to write his original fiction. He is not getting paid to write fanfiction. Period.

I asked about what perks, rewards, and milestones people would prefer for the Patreon site on this forum from the fans that have stuck with him for years during the "dry spells". The responses I got were "cameos, chats with the author, and sneak previews of the fanfiction". Matthew has veto control over what cameos are completed and where they appear. Matthew will be careful to keep the story consistent while also providing the reward he promised. If the cameos cause problems with the story, he will take down that perk and modify it. As for scale, the cameos will be limited if too many people sign up for them and a different reward will be offered.

I'm glad that you enjoy his work! Thank you for commenting and providing your input.

Now to address your comments specifically:
Author Lord, the guy who has literally left us waiting for years for updates on his (and deservedly so) his much loved fanfiction.
Yes, his writing slowed down to posting one chapter a year. It was still free and still showing up eventually. Sorry you were unhappy with the posting speed. FOr reasons detailed above, the posting speed was slow and there was very little he could do to improve it until he was laid off again.
You guys are paying him over $300 to continue writing for you.
Yes, he is asking his supporters to pay him to write original fiction. Most writers wish to be paid for their original work and do not provide it for free. They publish books, story story compilations, and articles for which they are paid. The AuthorLord is not getting paid to write fanfiction. Let me repeat this.. the AuthorLord is NOT getting paid to write fanfiction.
Its incredibly selfish of him, don't believe me check out milestones and see for yourself isn't a milestone something that you, his "Patrons" receive after meeting target? Sort of like a new feature for reaching a predetermined target, granted Matt is writing regardless but that really isn't point.
Milestones are expected to be things that the person you support needs or wants and in return, the AuthorLord provides a reward or bonus. This is not Kickstarter, where the bonus is the milestone, where an additional effort, reward, or enhancement to the "product" or service is provided for the milestone reached. Patreon is about supporting artists, writers, and musicians and paying for a product or service that they provide to their patrons. Milestones are achievements in how much money they receive for these efforts and they give a little something back for reaching those goals. Matthew has a little something for each milestone that patrons receive. Yes, Patreon is selfish. The AUthorLord is asking you to pay him $1 per chapter of his original fiction in return for getting those chapters. It's a writing vending machine basically but the novels are already complete and have been for years.
There are many places your money could go to, more worthy places.
You are correct. There are better places for your money. You could instead support a starving child who gets food when you donate. People are paying Matthew for entertainment in the form of a novel and they are getting entertainment out of it. It's discretionary funds and no different from going to the movies or eating out at a restaurant. That money could be better put to other uses, sure, but some people still buy books, watch movies, and enjoy television, regardless.
The second big problem and I've started to notice this already In his work....is the mess his chapters are going to become as he accommodates the perk of allowing certain pledgers a cameo in his work. Having some many poor changes of POV in one chapter is bad especially for a writer of Matt's quality.

Lastly if he's getting paid to write he's not doing out of passion - he's doing it out of pure greed. I would soon less updates and more quality the monthly updates and less.
You know what? Most writers write for money. Whether you agree with that or not, most writers who publish books do it because they love the work and also want to get paid for it. Only in the fanfiction community is it considered "greedy" to ask for money for writing. Matthew has been motivated to write for various reasons including the love of the process, but money has been a motivation for the past 10 years or more. You have enjoyed his writing all of this time and it was already motivated by money. This is the reality: If he gets paid to write original fiction, he will produce more original fiction. He will continue to write fanfiction for free regardless.

Regarding the commentary on the quality of his work, that is a separate issue and not related to Patreon. The point of view changes happened with or without the cameo of Eric Buehler the auror. That was an example of a cameo but none of the other chapters have had a cameo. He has been working on several chapters that were nearly complete before he was laid off and well before Patreon was launched. So the quality of his work is affected by multiple things, including energy, health, getting back "in the saddle" so to speak. His writing can and will improve with comments and feedback from fans like you. Thank you for posting these quality-related comments.

[Edit]:
Matthew has posted cameos before in his stories. However, he has not yet posted any cameos from Patreon yet. Eric's support happened before Patreon was launched and he didn't ask for any rewards at all. Also, regarding the original fiction, before we released chapters to Patreon, Matthew and I went back and seriously polished the completed chapters for The Deal and The Journey (novels). Some sections were rewritten and characters were altered.
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Author Lord's Patreon

Unread postby Quetzal2006 » April 12th, 2015, 4:54 pm

Firstly Thank You to Both Authorlord and Runsamok for replying to my post and setting the record straight. Happily I can say that my arguments and concerns have been addressed and In light of whats been said I can concede that I was in fact *wrong* in this instance with my assertions and concerns.

Certainly it was never my intention to start a flaming war or anything like that - I am but a "fan" who felt jilted shall we say. Still to reply to me the way you have speaks greatly of your characters and I apologize for suggesting Authorlord is selfish and what not. Who knows perhaps after the dust is settled I may end up becoming a Patreon contributor myself.
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Re: Author Lord's Patreon

Unread postby SiblingCreature » April 14th, 2015, 1:29 am

If I might make a recommendation, it might be a good idea to post the details of the stories the Patreon patrons are going to get chapters of on The AuthorLord's Patreon home page. I think it would help clear up misunderstandings such as this. Also, if nothing else, knowing what is actually on offer in more specific terms than just "original fiction" might be more of an enticement to prospective patrons.

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Re: Author Lord's Patreon

Unread postby runsamok » April 15th, 2015, 7:17 pm

Thanks for the response Quetzal and thanks for the suggestion SiblingCreature!

It's difficult to write advertising copy to summarize the novels but I'll give it a try!
Sincerely,
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Re: Author Lord's Patreon

Unread postby viridian » April 21st, 2015, 11:58 pm

You're right. It's a good idea. Too bad I suck at summary. No, really.

Fortunately, Runsamok found a guide to doing them that really clicked for me. So here is what I'm posting:

The Deal
When a teenage malcontent is targeted by a corrupt principal, he makes a deal with two nerdy classmates. He protects them from bullies, they help him pass his classes. But soon his problems expand from staying in school to solving the mysterious disappearances that plague Glenridge. Can a trio of outcasts discover the truth before they vanish into the night?


How does that work?
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Re: Author Lord's Patreon

Unread postby SiblingCreature » April 22nd, 2015, 6:00 pm

When I suggested that I was just referring to the title and genre information that Runsamok had already posted earlier in the thread, but I have to say that's exactly the kind of summary that gets me interested in a story, so I think that will work well. :-)

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