From his new fic Long Night of the HarvestDon't forget: Mass Effect is powered by magic space rocks. Evangelion is powered by Your Mom.
Ahem... The fact that his Academy instructors (with Iruka as a notable exception) did everything in their power to sabotage his education might have contributed to his terrible grades, in some small way.Ending on that note would be boring, though. Enter Lee, who knows that exact feeling, that exact situation, and has worked past it. Naruto had a lot of trouble initially, yes, and is what Hinata called a "proud failure", but even he does not understand that sense of total hopelessness. For him, continuing to try always produced results of some sort; his poor Academy performance was in large part due to a strong tendency to goof off, as I understand it.
It seemed like you had Sasuke as the 'original' looper in your teaser trailer snippets, and Rock Lee as the second arrival in the loop. If Lee could get Tsunade, Sakura, or another medic-nin to join the loop, somehow (or convince Sasuke to train as a medic-nin), he might be able to find a 'cure' for his underdeveloped chakra coils, given enough time in the loops. As was pointed out in Chuunin Exam Day, "even if it's a million-to-one chance, where the patient might die when the surgery fails, that could be fixed by repeating it over a million loops". It would take a buttload of time, sure, but it's doable.Rock Lee knows the feeling of having to go a long time before you see those results. He also makes for an interesting "looper" because unlike most other characters, he cannot become more powerful in a time loop. With no ability for ninjutsu or genjutsu, his power is all physical, and that power resets with the rest of time. When the looping ends, he will be no stronger than he would have been had he never experienced the loop at all.
"Don't worry, Lee! This time, you won't just be a supporting character, you'll get to take center stage!"You are correct about Lee; he will acquire knowledge, it is true. And he will not be simply a passive NPC providing support for Sasuke [...] Now you have me debating whether it would be better to alternate between Sasuke's perspective and Lee's, or simply have Lee's efforts going on in the background.
From his new fic Long Night of the HarvestDon't forget: Mass Effect is powered by magic space rocks. Evangelion is powered by Your Mom.
Really? Are you sure? Darn, must be a side effect of reading too much fanfic. It seemed like such a reasonable explanation - but on the other hand, when you consider the way Naruto is consistently portrayed as a bumbling moron through-out the series, even as he progresses as a ninja and eventually gets other competent teachers, less biased in their approach... yeah, his own incompetence is probably a major factor in his lacklustre efforts. Come to think of it, some fanfics (e.g. Time Braid) tried to explain his chronic stupidity by the Fox having meddled with his nervous system, causing brain damage and giving him spaz attacks whenever it deemed it necessary.Actually, the one most responsible for sabotaging Naruto's academy training is Naruto himself. The academy instructors being responsible for sabotaging Naruto's academy training is fanon. If anything, the only one who actually may have been involved in doing so was Mizuki.
Iron Soul had an alternate take on this situation: Naruto ends up apprenticed to Ebisu (who's much less of a stuck-up closet pervert in this AU), and his new teacher explains that Academy students and freshly-minted genin are deliberately given sub-par training, so they can be used as cannon fodder. Later on, once they've proven their abilities and, more importantly, loyalty to Konoha, they're given better and more thorough instructions. This practice - more politically motivated than anything else - is intended to minimize the fallout from the inevitable occasional situation where a ninja goes missing-nin.The fic The Accidental Sensei actually takes a serious look at this and notes that it would not be limited to Naruto, or even his class (a common thing in fics), but would be a problem in the throughout academy. It also takes a look at just how Konoha's leadership would react if this was actually the case. Which is to say, they would be seriously pissed off by this fact and take steps to correct it immediately.
That depends on how you define "failures"; Naruto might have been better able to train and learn new ninja abilities than Lee, but it took a long time before Naruto was able to form relationships with people other than the Hokage and his ramen dealer; no matter how often Naruto tried to approach Sasuke or Sakura, he was snubbed. (And yeah, it's admittedly fairly stupid to do the exact same thing over and over, and expect a different outcome might someday occur, but that's Naruto for you.)Despite the similarities between Naruto and Lee, there are some very key differences. As Aladraia points out, Naruto doesn't understand the kind of hopelessness that comes from repeated failures and nothing to show from your own efforts.
Remember when Jiraiya was training Naruto, and trying to teach him the Rasengan? There was a scene where Jiraiya just walks off, yet again, to get plastered and grope random women, while Naruto is trying to get him to help him with the jutsu; Naruto then sees a little kid with an adult (probably a parent) who are sharing an ice cream - IIRC, it was an ice cream lolly with two sticks, the kind that's designed so you can split it down the middle and share it with someone.Naruto, as is typical of most Shonen protagonists, makes massive strides in ability rather rapidly. True, it still took a lot of hard work on his part, but he rarely put in the kind of time and effort into it that Lee did unless necessary (such as the Rasengan, Rasenshuriken and Sage Training). Lee, on the other hand, puts in that kind of time and effort constantly and gets more modest results, but I think Lee is far more proud of what he has accomplished than Naruto is in his own accomplishments.
Good point! Actually, come to think of it, if Rock Lee was completely unable to mold chakra, he probably wouldn't be able to open the Eight Chakra Gates and boost his taijutsu abilities, either. Derp, derp.Both instructor sabotage (other than, possibly, Mizuki, who clearly at least acted like a good teacher since Naruto trusted him) and Lee having deformed chakra coils are, in fact, fanon. I recently reread the bit where Lee's pure-taijutsu style is explained, and what Gai says is that Lee has no talent for ninjutsu and genjutsu. The handicap is not physical, but mental.
What about that time he'd had to undergo massive surgery, and Tsunade informed them that there was a 50% risk of failure, meaning that he'd never be able to function as a ninja again? Lee was fairly devastated, and it wasn't until Gai-sensei gave him some Pep-Talk-no-Jutsu with extra teeth sparkles, that Lee decided to go through with it. Lee probably came quite close to giving up, then.Rock Lee and Naruto do have many 'kindred spirit' traits, I agree with you, but they also are not total clones of each other. For all that Naruto is treated as a 'never gives up' character... he has given up in the past. Whereas Rock Lee, no matter how much he despaired, never has.
Sasuke and Lee would make an excellent duo for a "buddy movie road trip" type story, especially if Sasuke started to mellow up enough that he'd engage Lee as a person, rather than just a nuisance: Sasuke could be the snarky foil to Lee's exuberant Flames of Youth!, while Lee would provide moral support and energize the misanthropic emo-ninja.I was initially planning for Sasuke to be the sole viewpoint character, so the debate is a step up for Lee. Heck, the very first spark of an idea had Sasuke as the only looper. Lee just keeps moving up in importance!
Ooh, really? Is the Last of the Uchiha going to play match-maker? It would be hilarious to see a parallel of the infamous scenes where Naruto's stealth seduction mission was foiled by the spoiled milk he'd drunk earlier - except, this time, Sasuke ambushes Naruto and leaves him tied up, uses a henge to disguise himself as the Uzumaki, and then goes off to use his cunning and time-looping foreknowledge to convince Sakura that Naruto wouldn't be such a terrible date/friend/whatevs.And since you bring up Sakura's treatment of Naruto [...] that has been one of Sasuke's little side projects...
Except that's kind of....what's the word, pants on head stupid? Yeah let's go with that. Leaving aside that Konoha rolls on the Will of Fire and giving your all for Konoha and your friends. The simple pragmatic reality is that cannon fodder ninja are pretty much worthless you can't really pin down any ninja that can treat them as canon fodder, thus the entire point of exhausting the enemy is negated entirely. Instead you're wasting what on the whole of it is a fairly limited resource for nothing beyond making things grim and edgy. That's also ignoring that if you have effective enough leadership and propaganda that your troops aren't going to go 'fuck that noise' when you're ordering them to their deaths, then you have good enough leadership and propaganda to keep them loyal.Iron Soul had an alternate take on this situation: Naruto ends up apprenticed to Ebisu (who's much less of a stuck-up closet pervert in this AU), and his new teacher explains that Academy students and freshly-minted genin are deliberately given sub-par training, so they can be used as cannon fodder. Later on, once they've proven their abilities and, more importantly, loyalty to Konoha, they're given better and more thorough instructions. This practice - more politically motivated than anything else - is intended to minimize the fallout from the inevitable occasional situation where a ninja goes missing-nin.
Not as stupid as you think, considering that modern militaries essentially do the same thing. The simple fact is, basic training is just that, basic. By any rational observation, compared to what someone would actually need to know, it is highly subpar in that sense. While you then go to a more advanced course right afterwards (or just simply build on that in an OSUT situation), by the time a soldier is done with his or her formal training, they really don't know as much as they should, only enough to not be a danger to themselves and their unit.Except that's kind of....what's the word, pants on head stupid? Yeah let's go with that. Leaving aside that Konoha rolls on the Will of Fire and giving your all for Konoha and your friends. The simple pragmatic reality is that cannon fodder ninja are pretty much worthless you can't really pin down any ninja that can treat them as canon fodder, thus the entire point of exhausting the enemy is negated entirely. Instead you're wasting what on the whole of it is a fairly limited resource for nothing beyond making things grim and edgy. That's also ignoring that if you have effective enough leadership and propaganda that your troops aren't going to go 'fuck that noise' when you're ordering them to their deaths, then you have good enough leadership and propaganda to keep them loyal.
From his new fic Long Night of the HarvestDon't forget: Mass Effect is powered by magic space rocks. Evangelion is powered by Your Mom.
It has not yet come up in this rewritten version, but I plan to discuss the issue very soon. Sasuke has had a long time to think about this, and while he has had his periods of angst (and will again), he has ultimately come to terms with many of his decisions. His ninja upbringing also plays a part, in that he has likely never considered manipulation to be universally wrong. Beneath him, perhaps; unpleasant, occasionally; undesirable, sometimes; but not unquestionably, absolutely, always wrong. Still, he is not without guilt and doubt...As he got to know his teammates better, he became better able to creep closer more quickly without seeming unlike himself. Was it manipulative? Some might say so. But he did not feel bad about using his knowledge of his friends to give them what they wanted.
He could sense Kakashi-sensei’s eye on him, and the approval therein.
He closed his eyes as he turned to go home. He knew he did not deserve that approval, or the friendships he built again and again. But he needed them, and on his better days, he thought perhaps his teammates did too.
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